Leaders know how to provide solutions and build a community. Tucker Wannamaker is working to solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem through the power of community, coaching, and consistency. He started working with nonprofits specifically by doing some fundraising campaigns for a local community foundation in Colorado. Then, due to two large wildfires, he used his marketing, designer, and campaigner skills to raise money. Finding success with this, he built his tribe and community called Thrive Impact. The tribe aims to provide safety for members and increase their confidence and skills as leaders and their well-being.
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Transforming A Tribe Of Nonprofit Leaders With Tucker Wannamaker
Welcome to the show. Our goal is to help you be a better leader, inspire more people, create that passion your community wants and profit from experience. Now, readers, I want to hear from you. Tell me what you want, who are you interested in hearing from and more importantly, what action you take from every amazing guest that we talk to? If you’re a coach, you may want to check out my newest SaaS platform for coaches. It boosts productivity, saves time on session admin and up levels. Your sessions for $20 a month with unlimited clients, go check it out at GetClientFolio.com. Now, on to my guests and his incredible story.
People who run nonprofits have a problem with burnout and struggle, particularly with marketing ethically, their mission and their cause. When my guess was asked by the head of a fundraising organization, what appeared to be a successful nonprofit, one that even had Disney as a corporate partner and yet they were in a tailspin with a five-year decline in revenue. He had to find an answer and what we are about to learn is exactly how he did this.
He later went on to build his own tribe to support those in leadership, struggling with many of the problems they face now. He’s here to help us better understand how tribe leaders and community leaders can stay focused and on a mission while they deal with the problems that come up every day while running a vibrant organization. Welcome, Tucker Wannamaker, to the show.
Mitch, it’s such a pleasure. Thanks for having me. This is exciting.
It’s my pleasure to interview. Since I started this show in 2020, at first, it was very hard to find you, to find those who truly are serving and leading tribes but then, several months into the process and the show started to get more readers and attention, now I’m getting some amazing people coming to the table and you’re one of them, Tucker. Thanks again for accepting my invite. Let’s get into it. Let’s start at the beginning and give me an idea of what got you to where you are now.
It’s a little bit of a journey that started with me owning a marketing company many years ago in Colorado. I’ve done community work and somewhat of some activism work but I started working with nonprofits specifically. I remember doing some fundraising campaigns for a local community foundation and another thing that happened is that there was a massive wildfire, two of them that happened in Colorado Springs specifically, which is where I’m originally from. There were the two largest wildfires that had happened in terms of monetary damage in the state’s history.
After the first one happened, me and my friends decided that we wanted to use our skills as marketers, designers, campaigners of sorts to raise money for wildfire relief efforts. We ended up selling $183,000 in t-shirts. It was called Wild Fire Tees, after the first day and a half. We’re like, “We need to figure out what we’re doing with this.” We just thought we’d send out a few t-shirts to our friends and that was our way of helping out.
No, this ended up being a thing where we needed to figure out we need to start a nonprofit, first of all. What does that even mean? How do you create a 501(c)(3)? What is a 501(c)(3)? You get into the nitty gritty of all that of like, “What is your mission? What is the purpose of a board of directors? How do you give money away?” It’s a tough thing to figure out on the philanthropy side.
We have all these donors, people who bought $20 t-shirts, who we said we were giving the money away and we did. We ended up giving away over $500,000. I started with campaigns, working with nonprofits, and I ended up starting this nonprofit. My family and I moved to the Washington DC area and one of our clients at the marketing company was a nonprofit that was in DC. I ended up going to work for them. I had this 360-degree view of nonprofits both are like clients as starting one and then also as working inside of a few different ones on the communications on the fundraising side.
I had this deeper view of that space and I fell in love with the people inside of nonprofits. I also experienced the very reason why Thrive Impact exists, which is to help solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem. I experienced that burnout myself, especially one in particular nonprofit that I worked at and the resources that are available are typically very limited. There are out-sized expectations for you, especially as a fundraiser, but also as an executive director. There are a lot of conditions within the nonprofit space that create conditions of burnout.Nonprofit leaders really care. Click To Tweet
I remember when I first talked with the Cofounder and his name is Kevin Hagan. He’s the former CEO of the American Diabetes Association for that. He was the CEO of Feed The Children, he comes from large institutional non-profits and I come from small, scrappy nonprofits. We both got together and realizing like, “This is a problem and we need to figure out how do we go upstream with nonprofit leaders because if we can go upstream with them, help them thrive as leaders, individuals, professionals, people who need to generate revenue, who need to generate impact.”
“If we can help them thrive, then they’re able to create the impact that their communities need from them.” Burnout is the enemy of creating positive change. That’s a little bit of the story and coming in from a fundraising perspective of how do we turn things around? We have a decline in revenue. I had to answer a lot of questions and I had to ask a lot of questions, especially when I was in that space.
We all have a journey that we go on and at the beginning of the journey, we don’t realize what’s in store for us but one of the things I learned when you get to a certain age, you start to realize that almost everything you’ve ever done has prepared you to be in the very moment that you’re in right now. When you are in a place where you had to solve a problem and you say, “It was unexpected. We raised $500,000.” All of you guys together brought to bear everything you knew about marketing and fundraising to make that happen. I’m not going to allow you to dismiss that casually because you did an incredible thing and you did it based on your skills and abilities. We want to talk a little bit about the tribe.
I want to start by saying what I believe a tribe is and feel free to disagree, add to it or completely change my definition. When we have started to serve tribes here at The Tribe Builders, one of the most important things we need to do is get focused and we start with a manifesto. What is a manifesto? It is a document or a video. It is a vision that shares your mission and purpose with passion.
Once you do that, now we know what your passion is, that will drive to seek you out and repelled those who don’t want anything to do with you or that mission. With that passion, that’s possible. Without that passion, it sounds more like a sales call. Tell us a little bit about your manifesto, passion and vision for your tribe.
I think to speak to probably what you’re hitting on is one of the things that I love about nonprofit leaders is that they care. They’re people who hold onto and they live in attention. We all, as nonprofit leaders, live in attention. The attention of an ideal that we see that we hope for and that we believe ought to be, this other side of the tension, which is real. The tension of humanity of people is not in involved in that. For example, when I was the Head of Fundraising at Youth Service America, we believed that every young person deserves the opportunity to develop the skills that they need to be successful in school, work and life but there was a problem.
There’s this tension in that there’s this idea that we all hold on to and there’s this real. What I love about nonprofit leaders is that they live in that tension. Part of what our manifesto speaks to is to create more thriving communities and engage citizens of our country. A lot of it for us in terms of our tribe that we’ve built is helping them have things. We call it the community, the coaching and the consistency you need to be a thriving nonprofit leader.
I don’t know if that’s speaking quite to specifically manifesto, although I love that and I’m wanting to draft something up very specifically. I know we have the elements of probably what those are around giving. One of the things and I’ll speak to you specifically that usually there are three main things that keep most nonprofit leaders up at night that are impactful is their board, their staff or their revenue. Those are the three main things that keep most nonprofit leaders up at night.
Let’s break those down for a minute. They’re bored. Those are individuals. We’re dealing now with people management, emotional management, their revenue, which is a constant battle, always raising funds. What’s the third thing?
It’s their staff or their leaders.
We go back to the people issue. If you could help with people issues in what you’re doing, then you are adding enormous value here to your clients or to your members. I want to mention one thing. Years ago, I dated a woman who was the CEO of a very well-known nonprofit, one that has instant name recognition. First of all, I realized how stressed out she was.
It was incredible, but I also found out what she was being paid. Unlike the head of the NRA, who gets $400,000 or $500,000 a year salary, plus all his jet planes and perks, etc., she was making hardly anything compared to what I thought she should. She was making under $100,000 for the person who was running national fundraising nonprofit.
There’s enormous stress to leaders in nonprofits. I told her and this will speak to what you said a minute ago. I said, “You should leave. You should go get a job and you can make triple what you wanted.” She goes, “I know that. If I wanted to do that, I would have done it long ago, but it’s because they care about the people we’re serving. That’s why I don’t.” This is very specific. This is not your typical like, “My daughter got a new job.” “Why?” “She left because she got a raise.” It’s not the same thing.
Your folks are incredibly dedicated and caring individuals. In your role, marketing addresses the fundraising part. When you talk about managing the board and managing staff, those are the people’s issues. I’m going to ask you more about that but I have a question before we get too deep into this. When did you start your tribe and how many people are you leading?
I’ll probably broaden it. There’s a smaller specific cohort of people that are called Thrivers. That’s the name of our tribe. There are probably about twenty there right now. There’s not a massive tribe per se in terms of that dedicated specific cohort. There are probably about 200 to 300 that are on the outside of people who are regularly engaging in some of our different workshops, different trainings or things like that. In our community of Thrivers, specifically where we are intentionally creating safe space for these nonprofit leaders to interact with, is around twenty.
What would you say your audience is? I know that your Thrivers are that small group that you have now but we all have audiences and prospect lists. How big is that?
We are probably in the 4,000 to 5,000 range.
Now, we’re going to talk a little bit about monetization. I’m assuming that those twenty people pay something to be part of that group. Tell us the differences between those who attend your free presentations versus those who step up with cash and enroll.
In our particular case, what we’re working on, Mitch is a combination of a historically nonprofit-based funding model, which is more fundraising and donor-driven, as well as a fee-for-service model. In case any of your readers don’t know, nonprofit is not a business model. It’s a tax status and nonprofits can sell products. Wild Fire Tees, for example. We sold products but we were a nonprofit. We can sell and do fee-for-service. In fact, many times, nonprofits can do all the same things for the most part that for-profits can do, plus they can do other things like fundraising and things like that.What makes a nonprofit great is not the programs or even their tribe. It's the impact that comes from that. It's the outcome. It's a positive change. Click To Tweet
Based on our model, what we’re very actively working in is both on the monetization side of a monthly subscription, more or less of sorts into the community. What we’re working on is supplementing and subsidizing that from many foundations or donors are focused on. Usually, the word they use is capacity building. Meaning, the ability to help build the capacity of a nonprofit leader, whether them as a leader themselves in terms of their resources and availability of staff, things like that. We’re working on that particular part of the model, which is a traditional more fundraising model.
Do you also help your leaders identify networks that they should belong to and grow their networks and their influence as part of that network? Was that not part of what your organization does?
No, not specifically. We don’t do that. I think a lot of what we’re focused on and I want to hit on this specific piece, which is, I mentioned those three things that keep most nonprofit leaders up at night. There’s something underneath the surface that’s going on is that most nonprofit leaders are terribly lonely and very isolated. Isolation is one of the biggest problems. In fact, we know from some of the research how painful loneliness is on us as human beings? That loneliness is more toxic to us than smoking than drinking and then obesity.
There’s a study that came out of UC Irvine that showed loneliness has an effect upon our longevity and it was worse than all of those things. This is what I was talking with Kevin about when we first started Thrive Impact was, how so many leaders are, whether you’re a fundraiser and executive director, in this position where you have to perform all the time. You have to like put on the facade, put on the face, even with your own board and staff. You create these conditions that create a space of loneliness.
It may sound fluffy to some people, but if you go underneath the surface and we know this from the biology and the neuroscience-based upon the work that we do with a man named Dr. Daniel Friedland. How our brains function is it starts with belonging first and then go into significance and strategies. Google did a study called Project Aristotle on what creates and makes for a high-performing team. It was a large study and the number one factor involved in what makes for a high-performing team is psychological safety.
Anyone who’s reading for a few episodes at least is going to notice a theme here. Tucker mentioned something that several of our past guests have also mentioned. We have two things we want to deal with right now that are very important to Tribe Builders and important to me too. I would love your take on it. When we build a tribe or when we build a community, there are benefits, but there are benefits that go in both directions. What I’m asking you is, what benefit do you provide for your members and why should they follow you? In a balanced way, what benefits do they bring to you and your leadership team as members of your tribe?
I would say the first and foremost benefit of Thrivers specifically is safety. A space where they’re able to practice things and able to take some risks that are not as risky as if bringing it to their own board or something like that. We’ve heard time and time again, what makes a nonprofit great is not its programs or even their tribe or whatever.
It’s the impact that comes from that. It’s the outcome and the positive change. The things that we’re measuring at Thrive Impact is, are they increasing in their revenue as a part of this? Are they increasing in their confidence in their skills as a leader and as a fundraiser? Are they increasing in their wellbeing? Are they feeling less stressed and less lonely?
That safety component of a space where people can honestly share what they’re dealing with and going through as a fundraiser is probably the first and foremost thing that we focus on. If you don’t have safety, you don’t have anything. People can’t honestly share where they’re at and where we have a space where all voices are able to show up and be as they are. It’s hard to go honestly from there. That’s one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle that we offer, if you will, in the way that we put together the pieces.
The second part of that question is, what does having a membership do for your company other than money? Other than revenue, why have a tribe? What do you get from your members?
To me, it’s a mission. Our mission is to solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem. How do you do that? You create a groundswell in our case. We do organization-based work as well, where we come in and work with teams on strategic planning. We have a whole Energizer product line because we’re facilitators at the core of our work.
We’re holders of space and choreographers of conversations. We do org-based work in the trenches of specific nonprofits. The long game here for the mission, which is ultimately the more transcendent purpose that we’re all here for the bigger story, is to help solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem. That is something that t we all do.
This isn’t Thrive Impacts community. This is our collective community and Thriver community and we’re a part of it. We have a distinct role as Thrive Impact but we’re all here to go after our mission and to help solve this problem because it’s a big problem. If we can solve this problem and continue to solve this problem, it creates ripple effects across communities. I know that Beth Roalstad in Colorado Springs is the Executive Director of Homeward Pikes Peak. I know that because she is more thriving as an individual leader, that’s creating ripple effects across her staff and revenue.
When she first joined us in 2020, she was despondent. She was frustrated and tired. She ended up having the best end-of-year fundraising process that she’d ever had in the history of her organization. She attributes so much of that to being a part of Thrivers because she got into a rhythm. She had people to connect with her. It was that community, coaching and that consistency that made a difference for her.
You’re speaking like a community leader would. You went back to the benefits you bring to your members, which is great because you do. The question is, what do they bring to you? I thought you were saying, “I’m one of them too. I need that same exact community that they do and therefore, we built this to serve us as well.”
As the CEO of Thrive Impact that I am, if I look to, “What is one of the best ways to solve this problem and to bring about this to solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem?” It is creating a groundswell of people who believe in the power of being thriving nonprofit leaders themselves. Many of the organizations out there that have memberships or things like that are typically very content-focused. They’re here to train you and we do a lot of training. We had a major donor deep dive around going into the nitty-gritty trenches of major donors. We had a plan giving and storytelling deep dive. We do like deep skill-based training but the real core value here is the building of the community.
I’d say one part in particular here is we talk about safety. We talk about belonging to a bigger story but we also create spaces of sharing. Spaces where they are able to give and receive to each other, which also then gives and receives to us too. It’s like what you’re getting at Mitch is we get innovations from our community. One of our core values at Thrive Impact is co-creation. Part of this, to be honest, Mitch, is getting out of some of the White supremacy issues that have circulated in that space like, “We’re coming in to come to save the day.”
That’s not what the space of nonprofits needs to be. We’re not here to come to save the day. We’re here to come co-create the solutions with the very people we serve. Co-creation is a massive part and is important. We ask them questions about what do you see as the future of our community? They helped shape the community for us that helped make it more sustainable and impactful for us as well. It’s this giving and receiving that we have with our community members too.
If you remember Tucker, at the beginning of the show, I talked about Clientfol.io, my SaaS platform for coaches. In some days, it does feel like a nonprofit too, but the reason I bring it up is because the small group of clients that got started with me in the very beginning was co-creating the software and the systems with me as the product was coming together. I think that the co-creation element needs to be part of almost any effort. Whether it’s a nonprofit or a serious profit-based business, co-creation drives engagement and engagement drives revenue.
We’re talking from the standpoint now of anybody who is interested in building a community or a tribe, how does revenue play into this? What have you done to generate revenue for the organization? If you tell me that you went out and raised donations, that would be one way but I have a feeling there are other ways. Tell us what you did.Community and coaching can make a difference. Click To Tweet
How Thrivers in the trenches community got started is a dear friend of mine, Frankie, who is the Executive Director of The Good Listening Project in Washington, DC. He was like, “I need to get into a rhythm.” Our very first Thrivers community was called the Thrivers Fundraising Club. Back in the day, it was great. It was Frankie and me and we’re like, “Let’s invite a few more people to come.” I share that story because if you’re going to start a community, just start with what you got. Start with a few people.
We use an analogy called the skateboard analogy, which is if you want to build a big, beautiful car, don’t build all the specific components like the wheel and the chassis because nobody can interact with that until the car is built. Instead, build a minimum viable transportation vehicle, start with a skateboard first. It’s going to be clunky. Your legs are going to get tired, but you’re still going to be able to get from point A to B and then you can start upgrading to the bike. This is part of the spirit of co-creation, as you let the community members start to say, “What if we added a pedal to it?” I took two wheels off, made bigger wheels, added a pedal. We could probably get there a little faster.
Google has a statement that we use many times, which is, “Our ability to be competitive and relevant is not based on a single point in time but on our ability to adapt over time.” Our advantage is our evolutionary advantage. If you’re looking to start a tribe or a community like this is, start with the people around you. What do they want, what do they need?
Frankie came to me and I’m so grateful he did. We added two people and then we added four people. It started organically building. Typically at this point, we’re in a quarterly rhythm of co-creation where we have a quarterly section around how is this quarter? This is our learning part of our community around building that. Is that answering your question, Mitch?
Sure. I want to go a little deeper because I’m trying to play the role of the reader, who’s enjoying our conversation. One of the questions and another way to look at this is what comes first, the chicken or the egg? What comes first? The passion, mission, organization and the community or a product to start with before you build that?
Honestly, that depends on the state of the organization. We get revenue in two primary forms. One is through our organization-based work, strategic planning processes, board retreats, board energizers. We have all these energizer types of facilitated workshops and processes with nonprofits that help fund Thrivers right now. Because we have that, we’re subsidizing Thrivers but now we’re working on our fundraising side.
In 2022, we’re going to be going strong on getting things like foundations, major donors and going that direction. If there are foundations or donors out there who believe in the power of this type of work, I’d love to talk to you. In terms of where we were, just to give you a space specifically for us, our Thriver model in terms of the price is $200 a month. Some nonprofit leaders can do that and some can’t. We were trying to create a space in the earlier stages of the specific Thriver community.
What’s most important is the quality of the community members themselves. I’ve put less emphasis on the revenue, although everybody does pay something and that’s important psychologically. Many times we’ll share with people if, for whatever reason, they can’t. Their nonprofit can’t, they can’t or whatever it is, they can’t do the $200 a month. If we feel they’re a good fit for the community, we’ll say, “What do you feel like is doable and what do you feel like is fair?” We put it back on them and let them explore.
We’re making a little bit of a community-based pricing model, to be honest with you. That community is embedded into all that we’re doing. That’s been a test for us but we want to make sure that everybody is paying something. That’s very important psychologically. We are making money in terms of sustainability through the Thrivers themselves. It’s subsidized right now through our organization-based work. We’re at a place because we’ve very much seen like we’re well beyond proof of concepts. It’s having a clear impact. In fact, 100% of the Thrivers said that they increased in their revenue because of Thrivers. It was, on average by 23.8%.
That’s real data that shows that they’re increasing their revenue. There are some other data that we have around increased in their skills and confidence. Increasing in their wellbeing, that they feel less isolated and alone. They feel less stressed because of being a part of Thrivers. We have all that to now take to market in a deeper way. That part of our initial process here was coming up with a solid proof of concept that is subsidized from our organization-based work right now that we can then bring to market in a deeper way, especially around getting the funding needed to make it more sustainable.
First of all, it reminds me of years ago when I was a member of a local synagogue. They had a yearly fee to join, but if you couldn’t afford that and for a lot of families, at least 15% of the families, couldn’t, it was very similar as well. You have to pay something, so what can you afford? I liked that structure. My second comment about your situation is that you’re charging way too low in amount for the value you are delivering. That’s my opinion.
With the stats that you have, it should be easy to justify $200 or more per month for the work you’re doing just on those stats alone. Once the community involvement kicks in for any new member, it then becomes essential to them, I believe. I like what you’re doing. Here’s the part of the show where you get to help others, who are getting started, make some early decisions. What are the early decisions that a new tribe builder needs to think about before they start dedicating hours per week to this new venture to this new idea? Where do they start?
I would start with one of the frames that we use with our nonprofit leaders a lot. It’s called the Pain Joy Bridge. On one side of a bridge is people’s pain and on the other side of that bridge is their joy and you are the bridge. One of the first things I would suggest for people is to clarify what is the pain and go there in your heart and mind, like what is the pain that they’re facing right now?
You can even go deeper. If they ended up not addressing this over the next 6 months or 1 year, what does it look like? We did this with nonprofit leaders and we got to the point of like, “If they don’t deal with this level of stress and burnout that they’re dealing with, they’re going to die early of stress-related causes.” The data would say that’s true. The pain of loneliness and this type of burnout in nonprofit leaders kill us.
We started writing out the pain. That’s why I was able to share their board, their staff, their revenue, and their loneliness. I was able to hit those because we spelled it out. We’re like, “What are people dealing with?” Imagine they come and they’re a part of your community. What’s the joy that is set before them? What is the joy that would be able to be a part of it? This is the ongoing dynamic document. This is becoming surprising maybe it’s because it’s a simple framework that all of our Thrivers use all the time with their board. What is the pain that the board member is in?
We talk about donor communities. When it comes to fundraising, most nonprofits get stuck in the trap of what I call quid pro quo fundraising. It’s all based on social capital and scratching each other’s backs but that always leads to donor and fundraiser fatigue. How might you understand, what is the pain that a donor is facing and what joy would they like to come into? If you can start to spell that out, then you can start to put together the bridge and the elements of that bridge. That would make sense to that and start things that you can start to test in your own community.
That’s a lot about what I think the manifesto is for. Maybe that manifesto should not be written with no experience and that should be written once you understand the pain deeply of what your members are going through. You also understand the function of the bridge in your analogy. Why do I exist as a bridge? How can I get them from pain to joy and what are the steps that I will guide my members to? I think that was a great analogy and for those who are on video, I also want you to notice one very important thing. This has been a fantastic conversation. You shared some incredible tools for all of us to benefit from. I also want you to tell us a little bit about what you’re offering to the readers.
We do a free workshop every month. It’s about the Six Shifts that Nonprofit Leaders Need to Make. If you’re not a nonprofit leader, but you are a mission-driven leader of a business, an organization or whatever, these shifts are relevant to you as well. It’s how do you make the shifts into being more sustainable, creating more impact, and having more wellbeing in terms of your own person as a leader.
That’s a free workshop that we do. It’s for 90 minutes. We like to say, “It’s hard to describe what the orange tastes like. It’s much easier for you to taste the orange.” Come and taste that orange, if you will. Come and see how we facilitate and choreograph conversations. It’s not your sit there and turn off your video on Zoom. It’s a highly interactive experience and connective experience, but also, you’re going to learn a lot even in that 90 minutes. You got to go to ThriveImpact.org, and right there on the homepage, there’s a button you can click and you can sign up for the next one.
If you are reading and you don’t do this, you’re missing out on the lessons of an experienced tribe builder and a professional community builder. I would urge you to check it out. It’s going to be valuable no matter what. I don’t like 90-minute videos or 90-minute presentations but what I do love is 90-minute or 3-hour meetings where I am involved.The real core value is the building of the community. Click To Tweet
I love to be involved but if I have to sit and stare at a screen for 90 minutes, I am going to turn off the video and check my email. This sounds like it could be very valuable. On behalf of the community that we run here at Tribe Builders, I’d love to thank you for that and for your contribution as well. Tucker, thanks again for showing up, playing all out and being you. It’s been great to hear your story and I appreciate it.
Mitch, the pleasure was mine. I appreciate your thoughtful questions and comments throughout this.
I’m looking forward to the next time we get a chance to speak.
Let’s do it. Thanks, Mitch.
- Tucker Wannamaker
- Wild Fire Tees
- Feed The Children
- Youth Service America
- Project Aristotle
- Homeward Pikes Peak
- The Good Listening Project
- Six Shifts that Nonprofit Leaders Need to Make
About Tucker Wannamaker
I am working to help solve the nonprofit leader burnout problem. Every impactful nonprofit leader deserves to THRIVE as individuals, personally and professionally, so they can have the IMPACT our communities need from them. That’s why I am focused on helping nonprofit leaders energize their revenue, staff, boards, and stories through intensive coaching, experiential learning, fresh strategies, and the culture and mindset change needed to make it happen.
For more than a decade, I have been in a variety of mission-driven leadership roles including building an award-winning nonprofit marketing agency (that I sold), leading fundraising campaigns that brought millions in the door, years as an outside strategic revenue and change-management coach for nonprofits, and leading a start-up nonprofit through a challenging season of accelerated growth and onward to sustainability.
A little about me: I ride an old 1980 Vespa. I have four kids that are radical. I love taking them skiing, bike riding, and hiking (it’s the Colorado in me). THE BEST: my wife. 16 years into it and she gets more lovely every year. #notevenjoking
Quote that I love: “If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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