There are times when you don’t need all the trappings to get things started. When you are in alignment with your goals and the path you need to reach them, you will do all you can to make the sophisticated simple and realize your dreams. Dov Gordon believes that being exceptionally good at what you do will make your clients move forward in key areas they are currently having concerns with. You don’t need to share the same experiences to get on the same level with them and show how you can assist in removing the obstacles along the way.
Make The Sophisticated Simple: Do More Faster with Dov Gordon
My guest is a business expert who makes other coaches and consultants successful. He struggled with his own business for years until he discovered the secret that unlocks success for his own small company and taught it to others. One by one, they too experienced the success that was elusive for all those years. He’s here to share that magical process with us.
Dov Gordon, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. Great to be here.
Let’s go back to the beginning and tell me how you got into the business that you’re in and where are you began.
I’ve been interested in business since age thirteen. At age thirteen, I discovered the business and personal development sections of the library and since then I’ve been just reading as much as I can get my hands on any topic that’s related that I find interesting. Certainly then, it was a lot of self-help, personal development, public relations, management, marketing, and sales, everything. My first real attempt to run a business was as a representative for Excel Telecommunications, which is a multi-level marketing, MLM, back in the ‘90s. The owner sold it for a lot and became a billionaire. I didn’t. I learned a lot from it, so it was a worthwhile experience, but I don’t see MLM as a real business at all. It’s good for learning some skills, but it’s not a business. Over the years, I heard about this thing called business coaching. I didn’t know what it was. I didn’t know what a business was even, but despite all the reading, I had no real experience. I had never had a job. I just knew I could be good at it.
Sometimes you’re pulled in a certain direction and I just felt I was being pulled in that direction. Back in 2001, I enrolled in a coaching university type thing, whatever they call this virtual two‑year program. I used that as a way of beginning to learn some skills. It was enough to get started, although I’d discovered the manuals from that, about eight, nine, ten years later. I flipped through it and I was appalled at how basic and unsophisticated they were and just threw it all in the garbage, but it gave me what I needed at the time and that’s a counterpoint to what I just said. Sometimes that’s what people need at the time. They don’t need everything that they need to get started and that’s an approach that we like to take, meet people where they are, give them what they need for where they are. I’ll just go off on a side point. I have a little team. We’re a little boutique coaching company. There just a few of us, but I tell my little team that if someone comes to us and they’re a four on a scale of one to 10, if they are four, our job is to help them get to six, seven, or maybe eight, but if they’re at a two, we want to help them get up to a five or a six. If they’re at a four, we want to help them get up to seven or eight. If someone comes at a two and we try to get them up to a seven or eight, we’re going to break them. You can’t push people too far too fast usually.
This relates back to what you said a minute ago about the fact that when you first took your courses about learning how to be a coach, looking back ten years later, you saw how simple that material was.
At the time, it gave me the start that I needed. Ten years later it was, “I don’t need this.” That’s a good thing; I’ve come so far but at the same time, I also do like to think that one of the advantages that we have or one of the unique things that we bring is that we are able to share a deeper sophisticated understanding of things in a very simple way. It’s almost like having your cake and eating it too to some degree because when you deeply understand something and you’re able to communicate it to people in a simple way, then people can understand it faster and they’re capable more, so I like to think that we have an advantage in that way, but that’s certainly for everybody to decide on their own.
Let’s go back a little bit further though. Here you were at this point; you took your two-year course. Do you have your certificate?
No, I don’t. No certificate, never bothered. I didn’t do it for a certificate. A lot of people are concerned about certification. I’m not concerned about certification because nobody cares about certification. They only care if you can help them, especially for coaches, consultants, and professional services. For certain professional services, obviously you need legal certifications. Where legal certification is not required, it’s your marketing and sales abilities as well as your ability to then serve your clients well and follow through and keep your word and be consistent and show up and being all that, that matters far more than any certification. I wish more people would understand that. If somebody goes for coach training because they need the skills like I did or they feel that it’ll help them get started, then I understand that. If someone’s going because they think that certification is going to help them grow their business, they are sorely mistaken and they’re wasting months or years of your life.
From the standpoint of you in your path, whether you needed the certificate or not, here you were, you completed the work. How did you find your very first client?
I was in Jerusalem at the time and I was looking around where to find an English speaker? Because that’s my native tongue, I’m from New York. I was trying to find English-speaking business people who I can get as clients. I had some trouble figuring that out, but I saw an advertisement for a Dale Carnegie course. The Dale Carnegie Franchise for Israel had been picked up again recently after lying dormant for many years and someone had run a Dale Carnegie Franchise somewhere in the US for many years, retired, and he was running it in Jerusalem. He ran the first course, the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. After that he moved to more modest premises. That first course that I was in, it was very lavish and under under-priced, so I had the best of everything. I ended up in a room for fourteen weeks. It was twelve weeks, four hours straight once a week with another 40 or so English‑speaking mostly business people. I left that class twelve weeks later where 14% of the class was my clients and those were my first clients. Because you get to know people and you can suggest that we meet for coffee and find out about what they’re trying to achieve and where they’re getting stuck and you can suggest that you might be able to help them.
That’s a pretty remarkable statistic, to walk out with 14% of the entire class as your clients. Would you say that that’s normal? Or would you advise that as a way of going about looking for and generating new client relationships?
In some cases, that could be. I do remember the number 14%, but maybe it was 12% to 14%. It’s a handful of clients. Is it remarkable? I’ll leave that up to you. Should other people do it? Here’s how you think about it. If you could put yourself in a room for four hours a week for twelve weeks in a row with 40 of your ideal clients or maybe twenty of your ideal clients, then the answer is of course you should.
I love that you were successful the very first time you tried. That shows that you’re tuned into what it was you wanted, what you were looking for, and it was clear to you. This is an important point, if you are not clear on specifically exactly who your target perfect avatar client is, then do that first. After this class, you had your first group of clients. How did you know how to price your services?
I did not. I priced them low. I needed to get started. I just came up with a number, as I recall it. I honestly don’t remember all the details of that, but I started with something that I probably felt was “I would be satisfied with and it would be very good for you, so let’s do that.” I didn’t say those words, but that was the thinking and raised it over time. You always want to be pushing a little bit higher, a little higher, and figuring out how to raise your prices.
I’m going to challenge you on something because this is something that has come up in conversations that I’ve had with clients as well and that is how do you think someone should look for a coach? Admittedly you were just out of coaching school, you had never truly built a business of your own and here you are advising business owners on how to build their company. If you’re coaching somebody on how to find a coach, would you suggest that you’d look for a coach that had the kind of experience you yourself are looking to obtain?
Yes. However, let me just clarify something. I wasn’t putting myself forward as an expert in running a business at the time. It was much more of accountability. I learned certain processes, ways of thinking. Processes can be applied to a myriad of situations. I could be masterful at a process or multiple processes which I am, and I can help somebody who’s running a business that I’ve never run because it’s two different skills. This is the situation where there’s truth to both sides and each side will grab onto the piece of it that suits them for a nice juicy hyperbole.
I’ll give you an example. I did some strategy work years later with a company. It was a $15 million to $20 million a year business, a manufacturing company. They needed some help with a strategy. They came to me. They had just paid, $50,000 to $75,000, something in that range, to a strategy consulting firm. Why did they go with that particular firm? Because that firm marketed themselves as “all of our consultants were managers, so they’re not just consultants. They actually understand what’s involved in running a business.” That’s why they went with that firm and what they ended up with, after their process, was a book of good ideas. That’s not why people start strategy. The people need a strategy process because they need help making some difficult directional decisions. They don’t need a book of more ideas of, “Here are things that you could do or things you should do and so on.” They need help making difficult decisions, so the CEO found me somehow afterwards and we sat down. I don’t have any experience running a business and so on, but a few months later, we finished something where he and his team had made some difficult strategic decisions and he loved it and he brought me back to another company that he moved to a few years later.
That other firm was using the fact that their consultants had management experience as some kind of big marketing, “Don’t go with those consultants.” Yes, sometimes those consultants have expertise that you lack, you managers, that’s why you need them. It’s so easy to be dismissive like that, but it’s just not true. It’s not honest. It’s not accurate. You have to be good at something that enables you to help your clients move forward in a key area that they care about, but you don’t have to have the same experience that they have. If you did, what do they need you for?
Audience, what you’re hearing and what you’ve just witnessed and experienced is some of the brilliance that has made Mr. Dov Gordon famous for what he does. Dov, you handled that so beautifully. I challenge you directly and you just came right back at me. I love that and I appreciated the skill. What I loved about what you said is that when someone raises an objection, it makes sense for you to think about it from their perspective, not from yours. That’s what you just did. You repositioned my objection and handled it. You almost made me feel bad for asking the question. I love that. That was so good. Here you are at this point now and you’re cooking, you’re working as a consultant, as a coach, things are going well, you’re building your client base, what made you switch to working with other coaches and consultants to help them build their companies?
Let me just fill in a few blanks along the way. After that initial group of clients that I got, some clients, they didn’t all join the same day, but it was over several months afterwards, and then I was invited to a brand new BNI group. I thought that I was being invited to something exclusive and a privilege at the time, Business Network International. It did not help me move to the next stage, but eventually I moved on beyond that. I decided I was going to create a CEO Peer Advisory Group for CEOs of companies that were up to $1 million in sales, and then afterwards I moved to a more industrial city. I moved over to the Tel Aviv area and we had companies with between $10 million and $150 million in sales, CEOs ten times a year for half a day to learn from each other. I learned a lot from being able to cold call CEOs, get through to many of them, getting meetings with many of them, and then enroll many of them, not as many as I would’ve liked, but many into this CEO Peer Advisory Group and using that as a way of getting consulting projects. I did all that. However, it was very difficult. The part about selling all of it was difficult. There was so much that I didn’t know. I didn’t know that I didn’t know it and I was working so hard to get people at that meeting and then we’re on the way to the monthly meeting. I start getting the calls from the secretaries, “Don can’t make it because suddenly has board members flying in from wherever.”
There were a lot of mistakes that I made but over time I did get some projects. I did get some clients and I did some great work. I missed some clients. I missed some project. I learned a lot both from what worked and what didn’t work. I came to realize that eventually things started to fall into place. I continue to study. I continue to hire mentors and coaches to work with even though I hardly had any money. There are times when I didn’t have any money but as soon as I had, if I came across somebody that I felt could help me move to that next step, then I would invest. I needed to. That’s a big mistake people make, “I need the help but don’t have the money so I’ll have to figure out how to get the money first.” Anybody talking like that isn’t serious. They are just not committed. If you think about it, imagine someone wakes up with a dream to build a widget factory. It’s going to cost them $20 million to build a widget factory, looks in his bank account, “I don’t have $20 million. I have $3,000. Forget it, back to work.” It’s ridiculous. If you want to build that widget factory, you’re going to have to buy all sorts of equipment to help you build the widgets. You are going to have to hire experts and so on. In order to do that, you’re going to have to figure out how to come up with the money. You’re going to have to sell something, you’re going have to find partners, you’re going to have to raise the money, you’re going to have to borrow the money, you’re going to have to come up with it one way or the other. It’s no different.
If you want to build a consulting, coaching expertise, professional services-based business, accept that fortunately you could do that with a lot less money. You still have to get the tools that you need and you have to hire the help that you need in order to help you master the skills and put in place whatever it is that you need, the skills, the processes, the procedures, you can consistently attract your ideal clients and enroll them in sales conversations that work and keep them happy. Nobody knows it all. Everybody needs to keep learning. The best and fastest way is with coaching and mentoring. Obviously you got to find the right people, but it’s the same idea and if you look in the bank and you don’t have enough money, and then you say, “Forget it. I’ll have to just keep figuring it out.” Either you’re not convinced that the person can help you which is legitimate or you’re not convinced that you could succeed, which is also legitimate, except don’t say, “I don’t have the money.” Say, “I don’t have the confidence in myself so I have a hard time finding the money.” We all lie to ourselves, me included, and we get in our own way and that is what holds us back more than anything else.
What I’m interested now is this evolution, a slow movement where you shifted from working with business owners to working with coaches. Tell me about that transition.
I was working hard and did not have much to show for it. We were making progress, but it was still a real struggle. It slowly started to dawn on me what I was doing wrong and the blanks are filling in and I realized that it took me seven to eight years to figure out what I finally figured out, to learn what I learned, and I realized that I could help people make that transition much faster, in months, maybe year. There are so many people who were shocked that I’d been able to get meetings with those CEOs, “How did you do that?” As frustrating as it was for me, there are people who are looking from the outside in thinking, “How are you doing that? That’s amazing,” so I started to help them and realized that I enjoy this. I enjoy helping other consultants, coaches, and experts, people who have valuable experiences to get out there and to figure out how to get their ideal clients consistently.
There’s another important point and that is that over the years I came to understand that there are two paths to thriving as a successful consultant, coach, and expert. There’s what I call the path of the charismatic guru and the path of mastery. There are a lot of people who do well because they have very strong personalities. There’s nothing wrong with that as long as they’re not using it as a crutch. When those people are out there trying to teach the masses how to thrive and get clients consistently, there’s one thing that they can never teach and that is how to have a strong personality, because you can’t just follow a checklist for that. I don’t see myself as one of those who have a strong personality; certainly not naturally. I don’t. You know me, we’ve met many times and I’m a quiet guy. I can get up and speak, but I’m bad at small talk and all that. I realized that the path I had been on, the path of charismatic guru trying to follow all the advice out there, it was the wrong path. I realized that there is this other path, the path of mastery and I feel that we have a unique advantage in our ability to help what I believe are tens of millions of people who have an expertise. You’ve got to come to realize like, “If it’s not the right path, get off. There’s another path that you’ll find so much easier.”
What I want to do now is I want to speak directly to the coaches and consultants who are in this show, and I know there are many. I want you to unpack your strategy briefcase here and I’d like a master class lesson from you. I want some nuggets. I want to hear the good stuff. I’m a coach. I feel like I have some experience. I have some training, I’ve helped some people, but I haven’t yet caught fire and I don’t know exactly what to do next. Let’s say I find you, how would you advise me? How would you help me?
You have to understand that you’re never going to learn how to do surgery from reading a book. You’re not going to learn how to get ideal clients consistently to build a thriving business by reading a book, by taking a course, or even by someone coaching you and telling you what to do. You need something that you will deeply understand and the only way you’re going to understand it is you got to master it. Mastery to me is three things. Number one, there’s the critical 10% of knowledge or information. Most of us love learning. If we are listening to podcasts or probably have the tendency to read too much, to listen too much, to watch too much because we enjoy it and it’s good for us. I had to draw a line once and it’s a line that I keep crossing, coming back over, but the line between studying that I needed to do because it’s helping me break through the next bottleneck in my business versus studying and learning because I enjoy it. That’s a good important distinction to make. There’s that critical 10% that gives you 90% of what you want.
If you’re new, you don’t know what that is. You need somebody who’s already mastered what you’re trying to master to help you understand that this is what you need to know. Everything else, the other 90% you could ignore at least for now or you can study it when you want to. It’s like if you’re going to law school, medical school, or taking piano lessons or whatever, you have a teacher who helps you understand what are the few things that make a big difference. You’ve got to study that. The second step in mastery is go out and use it, apply it. We lose a lot of people between steps one and two because a lot of people never go out and apply it. Step three is you go out and you apply it and then you have some results and some results you like, some results you don’t. You go back to your mentor or your coach who is guiding you and say, “This is what I did. These are the results I got. I like these and I like those” and in seconds or minutes, he or she can see what would take you years to figure out on your own. They could redirect you and point you back.
You need to understand that the biggest mistake people make is they think they don’t know enough. They hit a wall, they follow some advice that they get “Do this. Build a marketing funnel,” and whatever it might be. They take some action steps, they follow blueprint that they paid $2,000 for or a course that they’re going through and they get stuck, everybody gets stuck. They hit the wall and they bounced off the wall and head in another direction. Because they think, “I must not know enough, so I got to go look for what is it I still don’t know.” They hit the chair leg, bounce off, hit the bookcase, and so on, and they’re going in circles around the room always thinking, “I must not know enough.” I was in that trap and I wondered and realized “Dov, you’ll never know enough,” that I could study my entire life and I still wouldn’t know a fingernail’s worth of what there is to know and I would get nowhere. It can’t be that I’m missing information. It just can’t be. I came to realize that what I was missing was an understanding of what I already knew. I already knew a lot, but I didn’t understand it. I thought I did, but I didn’t understand it to the point that it was guiding me.
If I knew something and I understood it, so I hit the wall and this is what we help our clients do, take a chip out of it. Because we have to realize it’s not that hit the wall again, hit the wall again, and eventually the wall crumbles and that’s when the light bulb goes off. That’s when you get it because that’s when you understand what people have been telling you. When I first did a launch a long time ago, it was my first try. I spent three months building something. I know what I was doing and I got some people. I made $750, one sale in three payments. As soon as I hung up from that last tele-seminar, I suddenly understood the advice people have been telling me all along. I just suddenly got it. I had been through the tunnel myself, now I can step back and see the beginning, the middle, and the end. Until then I was in. I couldn’t see it. Nobody could explain it to you until you’re experiencing it. That’s why the approach that we take to coaching is you’ve got to understand the critical 10% of knowledge is not about more and more information. It’s about this, understand this, then do that, and then let us review it with you, like if we were on a tennis court together.
Let me see if I could recap a little bit because what you said is very significant. You made a point of explaining that it’s not necessarily information that we lack. What we lack is the experience applying the information or knowing how to apply what we already have learned but still have not quite mastered. The next step is either figuring out what you need to do to apply it and then get some help making sure that you’re not spinning your wheels, like you said, three months building a launch and $750 with three payments. Clearly there’s this process that you have probably learned the hard way, but that’s the other thing I want to say, it’s all the hard way. When everyone says, “Do it this way and you won’t have to do it the hard way.” It’s all the hard way. It’s experience and that’s exactly what you’ve been saying, it’s getting that experience that changes everything. The question is would you rather get it quickly or would you rather get it slowly? For me and for you, we’d rather get it quickly.
People act as if “I just do what you tell me to do, then I’ll get clients?” there are a lot of people out there who sell stuff online like “Do what I did and you’ll also get clients,” and there are people who want to believe that and so they think, “I’ll just do what you did and I’ll get clients.” Then they go out and they do what they’re told to do and it doesn’t work quite the same as was expected. They are “Wait, I did what you told me.” It’s not that simple. This is not like I can teach you to flip a light switch and then it goes on and then it goes off. It’s more like heart surgery. I can teach you certain things, but if you don’t do it yourself, there are processes for learning surgery step by step. You take on more and more with a mentor or with a coach. You have to learn the knowledge and then you slowly build up the experience. With consulting and coaching, it’s a lot easier because there’s less danger. You’re not going to kill anybody. There is a key area that almost nobody understands. Everybody online is always telling us, “You’ve got to build a marketing funnel,” or a marketing system, whatever you want to call it. How do you do that? Immediately it gets to Facebook Ads or Facebook groups, LinkedIn, SEO, blogging, public speaking, or cold calling. It goes straight to tactics. What we have to notice is that for the most part, there are people out there pushing tactics. If they’re good at LinkedIn, everyone’s got to do LinkedIn. If they’re good at Facebook Ads, everyone’s got to do Facebook Ads.
There are tens of millions of people like me who are not looking to make millions a year. We’d love working with a small group of clients and helping them master the skills and turn their lives around, but there are some people like us who are trying to follow that advice and gets stuck. It’s not about the tactics. A tactic is like a balloon. If you have a blue balloon and a red balloon and the blue balloon falls to the floor and the red balloon soars, you don’t say that blue balloons fall and red balloons fly. You say that the red balloon had helium and the other one has full of hot air. It’s the same thing with tactics. Every tactic can work and every tactic can fail. You have to understand that if you see it’s not working, it’s because you’re filling your marketing tactics with hot air, not with marketing helium. This is what I had to come to understand because I couldn’t understand like why is someone else doing this and it’s working and when I’m doing it’s not. I realized that the right question is not what should I do, but when it works, why does it work and when it fails, why does it fail? That opened up my eyes to all sorts of things. For example, I realized that there are only three questions that your ideal client ever asks in order to go from total stranger to happily paying you money for your help.
The first question when they come across your message, however you’re delivering it, whether it’s a Facebook ad or whether you’re standing on a soapbox on a street corner, their brain goes, “Should I pay attention? Is it interesting?” If your message, however you’re delivering it with whatever tactic, connects with them because they’re brain goes, “It is interesting.” Instantly they have a second question, which is, “You got me interested, but can I trust you? Are you for real? Do you know your stuff? Do you actually care about me?” All different aspects of trust. If your marketing leads them to conclude, “Yes, I can trust you,” then and only then do they have a third question, which is “You got me interested, I can trust you. Is what you recommend right for me?” If your sales process at that time, whether it’s a sales letter, sales webinar, or sales conversation, leads them to conclude, “Yes, what you recommend is right for me,” then congratulations, you have a new client. That is the purpose of a marketing funnel.
Let me just review that for a second quickly. The first question is, “Is this interesting. Did you capture my interest?” The second question is, “Can I trust you?”, and that means “Do I believe what you are saying?” It’s interesting, but do I believe it?” The third question is, “Is this for me? Can this help me? Will this aid me in my path? Will this take me where I want to go?” If those are the only three questions that you have to answer, then where in the sequence of three questions do most coaches trying to shell their services fall down?
They fall down because they’re not even aware of these questions. They’re so busy doing and doing and doing, they’re don’t deeply understand what the goal of all they’re doing is. Most of what they’re doing is what we put at step four. I need to build a marketing funnel. “What’s the goal of the funnel?” you get answers like, “The goal of your marketing and sales funnel is to fill your pipeline. It’s to get leads. It is to close deals.” All that sounds true on the surface, but then you sit down to do the work and then you’re hitting the wall and bouncing off, hitting the chair and the bookcase, and so on because it’s all about the doing and it’s not about a clear outcome. When you realize that everything I do has a purpose, what’s the purpose? It’s to help my ideal client answer, yes, yes and yes. Suddenly you understand what you’re trying to achieve with all you’re doing. That’s starting to make sense. You’re starting to realize it’s not just about to fill the pipeline, that’s the result. If you put two things in place to help them, yes, to the first question, then you’re getting their attention and interest. When you put a couple of things in place to help them answer yes to the second question, they feel that you understand them and they can trust you, and then if you put a couple of things in place to help them answer yes to the third question, then they feel, “What you recommend is right for me. How do I start? How do I pay you and let’s get started.”
It’s also about like where people get stuck. People get stuck at every stage, but being able to recognize, “Am I not getting the attention and interest of my clients at all?” If I’m talking to somebody that I know I could help but they hear me or they read my message or they see my ad and they don’t click, then I’m probably breaking down at the first question. I’m not getting their attention and interest. If I am getting a click and then they bounce off or then they miss the appointment with me or whatever it is, I’m losing their trust along the way. If I’m having a sales conversation or I get them on a webinar, say that I’m looking to sell and I lose them, then I’m not helping them answer the third question. When you realize that these are your goals, then it helps you identify where is your bottleneck. Where is your constraint? Where are things breaking down? Then you focus just like the Theory of Constraints, you want to focus on what is the tightest bottleneck. Because if you can break that bottleneck, it will flow through the whole system, it increases.
We have six pieces that will help people. Question number one again is should I pay attention, is it interesting? The first thing is you need what we call marketing helium. You need a deep insight into your ideal clients. There are only two things that got their attention and interest, and that is you got to talk about a problem they have and don’t want and/or about a result they want and don’t have. That’s about depth of understanding. I don’t like using the term market research because that’s talking about the activity. I like talking about market understanding. We never understand deeply enough because we’re human beings. We always see our perspective first and foremost. We have to constantly be deepening and getting a market understanding what is the problem they have and don’t want and what’s the result they want and don’t have.
Piece number two is you craft that into a simple compelling head-turning message. When you have a simple compelling message based on deep understanding into the problem they have and don’t want and the result they want and don’t have, that’s the first question. If you’re giving a webinar and you have a title that they instantly get, because you’re talking about the problem they have and don’t want and the result they want and don’t have, then their brain goes, “That is interesting.” Instantly they have a second question which is, “Can I trust you?” There are two parts to that. Piece number three of your whole process is what we call the hand-raising free offer. Some will call it a lead magnet. I’m not going to go into that now. There’s a wrong way to do it, which most people are doing. There is the right way to do it, which is more to talk about.
Piece number four is to know the sequence. You develop a simple repeatable process for getting your hand-raising free offer in front of your ideal clients, so they have a chance of taking an action to request it, raise their hand. Then that shows you that, “I requested your hand-raising free offer.” That shows that I’m separating myself out from the millions around me and saying “I might be a potential client of yours.” Some of those who go through the hand-raising free offer, whatever it is, as I go through it, I get a taste. You help me begin to solve my problem, begin to get the result, and that leads me to conclude that “Yes, I can trust you.” Instantly, I have the third question, which is “Is what you recommend right for me?” A certain percent of those, people will then reach out to you and they’ll say, and “What do you recommend for my situation? My situation is different.” Everybody believes that and that’s true to some degree; 90% the same, 10% different. Is what you recommend right for me?
Piece number five is what we call the elegant sales conversation. Sales is not getting somebody to buy. It is not getting someone to do what you want them to do. Sales is leadership and you’ve got to learn how to elegantly lead sales conversation. The final part is what we call the easy yes offer where you make it easier, you package and present your expertise, your recommended next step in a way that makes it easier for them to say yes than to say no. When you realize that your whole marketing and selling processes, all it’s here to do is to help your ideal clients answer yes, yes, yes, and there are six main pieces to this marketing and selling process. It helps you rapidly diagnose where you’re getting stuck, focus your time, your attention, your money on getting help, on fixing that piece or the whole thing, and then you’re able to move on much faster. When you hit a wall, you don’t just bounce off and think, “I don’t know enough.” You say, “This part of it is not working. I’m not successfully getting whatever part of it is.”
You turn to your coach or your mentor and say, “This is what I’m doing, what’s wrong?” They say, “Make this change. Make that change. Hit the wall again, hit the wall again, and take another chip out of it,” and you start to doubt yourself at some point and you wonder, “Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing it right? Will this ever work for me?” You made that change, made this other change, hit the wall again, you keep hitting the wall, it’ll work. As long as you follow through and you don’t quit, one day you hit the wall and the wall crumbles. It starts a little slowly and then the whole thing collapses and then you step through. You’re awed and you look around and you look up and like, “I’m on the other side. I get it. I understand what everybody’s been telling me all along.” Now you understand. That’s what I mean by knowledge alone is not enough and then you can enjoy that for a brief period of time. You look up in the other direction and suddenly you see there’s this bigger, thicker, higher wall and it’s waiting for you and that’s your next challenge, and that’s called life.
That is called life. The thing that you said reminds me of something that Chet used to say all the time. I’m talking about Mr. Chet Holmes, who passed away in 2012. He was my very dear friend, mentor, and business partner for years with Tony Robbins building Business Breakthroughs International. Chet used to say, “Sales is not something you do to somebody. It’s something you do for them.” You echoed that in the way you describe this. You’ve probably heard me say this before, Dov, we have a moral obligation to help another person with our solution if we know inside that it is exactly what they need to get to the next place in their own evolution. In a beautiful way, you’ve described the process, and I love the way that you’ve structured the three questions and made it so clear and simple.
Dov has prepared a book which he sells for $95 or $100. You could download this book for free. You sold it for some number of years?
We sold it for five years for $97, meaning we didn’t create this to be a giveaway. We created it to sell it. It’s 80-something pages. It’s solid. There’s zero fluff. Anybody who’s not sure, I challenge you to sit down for ten minutes, read the first ten to fifteen pages, and I’m sure you’ll want to continue.
I have two questions for you. I love these questions because they help me clarify who it is I’m speaking to. I always love the responses. I never know what people are going to say. Here they are. Who in all of the space and time would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch, or an intense conversation with?
President Donald Trump. I probably lost some fans. I’m not a worshiper, but I admire what he’s achieved and there’s so much to learn from him. There’s a lot of thinking that he’s got there that’s not articulated, that we’re not hearing. I’d love to ask him some questions about why this, why that, and pick his brain a little more deeply than you can get any other way. That’s my opinion.
I love that you named somebody who’s a little bit controversial and at the same time has achieved so much. If you will allow me to go on that little walk with you, I will arrange for you and Mr. Trump to sit down together. How’s that?
I’m going to work on that. I’m not sure I’ll make it happen, but I’m going to work on it because you never know. Here’s the second question. This is the grand finale question. What is it that you are doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?
What we are doing has the potential to change the world. What excites me about what we are doing is that we’re helping people who are not these big, strong, charismatic guru types build and really thrive $300,000; $400,000; $500,000 or $600,000 a year, that’s our goal. Most people are not looking to make millions every year. Most people that I know and the people I’m working with are not looking to scale to seven figures and beyond. I see my role, my job is helping people like me who want to be making a good, healthy six-figure income, doing what they love. They want to be in demand from their ideal clients who want to work with them because of who they are and not because they’re fresh and gimmicky and so on. These people are often out of the spotlight and we can help them have more influence, impact, income, and that that’s huge and excites me.
Dov, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you. I appreciate how open you’ve been in sharing your wisdom. This has been truly a master class. Take Dov’s advice. Re-read this and go through a part of what Dov went through when he described his process because it’s truly gold. Dov and I have been friends for some years now. We’ve worked together individually and I can’t tell you the benefits that I’ve received just from his wisdom and I hope you do the same. Thank you for being on Your First Thousand Clients.
Thank you, Mitch.
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