58: Optimize, Automate And Outsource By Less Doing with Ari Meisel
One of the things that companies don’t do a lot is data analysis. By committing time to stop and look at the metrics, entrepreneurs can learn a lot on how to be effective and productive in their businesses. Ari Meisel grew Leverage with this mind set and with the help of Less Doing, a system of productivity he developed while he was on the journey of overcoming an illness. Learn how you can optimize, automate and outsource not just your business, but every aspect of life in order to be a more effective person.
Optimize, Automate And Outsource By Less Doing with Ari Meisel
My guest is a business expert who found himself in a hospital bed with a dozen tubes going in and out of him wondering if he was going to die at the mercy of some of the best doctors in the world. When they finally gave up on him, he decided to step in and take his health into his own hands. That was the beginning of a new life. From applying both diet and yoga, he slowly recovered from this ordeal better than ever. From this sprang a new enterprise which followed on exactly the concept of doing less. Ari Meisel, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me and for that dramatic introduction.
It really is true. Nothing I said was really false in any way, was it?
No, not at all.
Here you were in this horrible place and recovering from this horrible illness, Crohn’s disease. How were you inspired to basically get into yoga and vegetarian diet when almost everything else known to medical science had failed?
I got to this place where it was pretty bad obviously and I felt like I was in a particularly low point and things hadn’t been working. Part of the problem with Crohn’s disease and I feel like many illnesses with an auto-immune component is that because you’re essentially at war with your own body, it’s very quick to get to a point where you throw your hands up and you just let the tide wash over you and you go with it. That doesn’t usually take you to a very good place. You take more medicine and you try different tests and things don’t usually work. There’s a detachment that happens. It got to this point where I had some moment of clarity and basically it was like, “I’ve got to do something drastically different from what I’m doing now and see if I can get some semblance of control.”
I basically tried to do the extreme opposite of what I had been doing. I started with the vegetarianism that only lasted about three months. Then I was essentially a pescatarian for about three years. Now I eat everything because I have healed parts of my body but the pescatarian diet was the main part for me. I hadn’t really been physically active much at all other than lifting weights. Part of that was that I was on systemic steroids. I was just angry and I was lifting heavy weights, and that seemed to be making a lot of sense obviously at the time but it didn’t help me do anything. I went again the extreme opposite. I wanted to do something that was very gentle and complementary to your body’s movements, so that was yoga. Then I started just experimenting with supplements. The biggest thing in a lot of that was that a lot of people just don’t have very good body awareness. It’s just the way it is. We have too many other things going on. Unless you draw attention to something specifically, you’re not necessarily going be thinking about it or noticing it or recognizing how certain foods make you feel or certain activities or certain people. The biggest overall message from all of it that I would say is that I regained a better proprioception in my sense of my own body.
That sense of one’s self both physical, emotional, mental and spiritual are what we call balance. I understand balance because, like you and like most people, I’ve been through many of these ordeals on my own. Here’s something I wanted to relate to you. Many years ago when I was in business with Chet Holmes and Tony Robbins, Chet’s daughter, Amanda, had been having severe issues in the same area that you were. She had been under medical care as well. After a blood test from Immunolabs, she discovered that she had food allergies that she was unaware of. As soon as she eliminated those foods from her diet, all of her symptoms went away and she completely healed. Food allergies have some evidence of affecting the condition that you had. Did you find that to be the same or no?
I don’t think that I necessarily had food allergies because for one thing I never went gluten-free. That was never part of what I did. There may have been foods that I had become more sensitive to but a lot of that also comes down to a gut dysbiosis where you have an imbalance of good and bad gut bacteria or a microbiota. With all the testing I did, I did do sensitivity tests like that, there was something significant from those that led me towards any experiments. However, that is a part of the problem in some people.
We just had Dr. Gundry on the show a couple of episodes ago. He has this amazing new book out called The Plant Paradox where he talks about how foods affect our life and our body, and how certain vegetables are actually trying to kill us because they’re survival-based species as well. It was an interesting discussion for me and I hope for our listeners, but really we’re here to talk about your business, Ari. What emerged from this incredible ordeal that you went through was the beginning of something quite wonderful. Tell us the story of how this all started.
Basically, I’d been teaching productivity for five or six years at that point. As part of my journey of overcoming the illness, I came over this new system with productivity, which I would call less doing as in less doing, more living. I recognized that the supplements, the exercise, the food, all of that, was obviously very important and still is, but there was this large element of stress in my life that was causing inflammation and those feelings of overwhelm which is a vicious cycle. I created this new system with productivity to help people optimize, automate and outsource everything in their lives in order to be more effective. I was teaching that, I was consulting, I was speaking around the world. I’ve written two books on the subject. Basically in August of 2015, I had a dinner scheduled with my good friend Nick Sonnenberg on a Monday night. That morning just by chance, Zirtual, which was the largest virtual assisting company in the US at the time went out of business for a number of different reasons. They went out of business, it was a big event in our industry. We’re having dinner that night and we’re discussing it, and Nick suggested, “Why don’t you just start your own virtual assisting company?” I had three kids at that point, my wife was pregnant with our fourth and I was running my business. I was like, “No. I don’t want to do that.” He was like, “Why don’t we do it together?” I said, “Okay.” Twenty-four hours later, we launched Leverage with zero funding, two assistants, and ten clients that I’d pulled in from a mastermind program I was running. We were off to the races. Actually we are at our two-year anniversary. We are at just about 200 people on the team in seventeen time zones doing over a thousand hours of work every week for over 500 clients. It’s been an amazing ride. Our value prop from the very beginning was always that we can do anything. Anything that any business or person might need, we could do it.
It is an amazing story, but I need to ask you some questions along the way here because I’d like to pick up some of the texture and details in what happened. To create a business with two people and now have the size of an enterprise that you do today means that you’ve needed to put in place a lot of systems, a lot of functionality, to manage such a team. Can you describe some of that?
We’re completely the wrong team, we don’t have an office, we’re in seventeen time zones, and we run in an extremely official way in that regard. The other thing is that I have four small children. I’m usually working while the kids are at school and then getting some stuff done at night. My partner Nick has a little bit more regular schedule but he also travels a ton. We never wanted to be tied down to any place. A lot of times I feel like in a lot of businesses they have to sacrifice some efficiency or timeliness because of that. It’s been quite the opposite for us. We’re basically enabling people to work on things that excite them and interests them, and do it at the times that are best for their own biorhythms in the way that they’re productive. We run very heavily on Slack. We are the largest users of Trello, a project management tool, and then things like Intercom are very big. That’s something that we use for communication. The tools are a really huge part of what we do. I could go on and probably list about 20 or 30 tools if you want.
I love the fact that we both use Trello and Slack. I’ve not used Intercom and I’m going to look into it. I wrote a book called The Invisible Organization. That book really was how to convert a physical brick and mortar company to a completely virtual organization. A lot of the clients that I brought in from having that book out there have since then built virtual teams and used VAs all over the world as well. Can you explain what the difference is from what you do and some of these other VA sourcing companies? I’m sure you’ve seen 123Employee and all that. What do they do and what’s the difference between what you do?
I really do feel like we have a fairly unique offering. We don’t actually have any direct competitors in terms of the exact services that we offer. There are typically two kinds of virtual assistants out there, and we’re not really even a virtual assistant company to be honest. The way that most virtual assistant companies work is that you have either a dedicated model or an on-demand model. With dedicated models, it’s pretty straightforward. You have one person wherever they are in the world, you’re always going to call that person, always going to email them. They get to know your habits, they could learn what your spouse’s birthday is and what flowers they like, whatever it might be. That’s great. The con of it is that they tend to be more expensive because you’re usually committing to a significant number of hours with them. It’s also that there’s a limit to the bandwidth that person has in terms of time, skill set, and longevity. That person is unlikely to be an amazing graphic designer and a programmer and a really good travel specialist in one person. They could get sick. They could quit. They could just not want to work with you anymore for some reason. You’re almost at the mercy with them in that case, but that is what most people of older generations and more traditional assistant relationships are used to, that one person.
The on-demand model is something like Fancy Hands where you have access to thousands of assistants. That way there’s no limit to the bandwidth. You can have hundreds of projects done all at once. They’re usually very cheap, but a lot of times are limited to very small tasks, like a 20-minute task or less. You wouldn’t have an on-demand assistant build you a sales funnel for example. The quality control is a really huge issue there as well.
We sit as a hybrid. We offer the service that we can do anything. On our team of about 200, we have probably 40 or 50 generalists. Those would be the virtual assistant types. Then we have graphic designers, video editors, podcast audio engineers. We have two paralegals on the team. We have an architect on the team. Any project you might have, we can do it in-house. We end up being your outsourcing concierge in some ways. It’s our team. We guarantee all the work. We do all the project management, and we guarantee the quality. It’s outsourcing as it should be. You give us a project and we get it done. That’s all you have to worry about.
That is a different model. In some ways, it’s like some of the SEO companies that I’ve heard of. Are you saying that I could say to you, “Ari, what I want to do is launch a new product. Here’s the product. Here’s the pricing. Take it from here.” Is it that complete of a system or service?
Put it this way. We’re about to produce an entire TV show for a major network for a client from the ground up.
You could do just about anything that people can come to you with, you’ll do it.
As long as it’s legal. I love the challenge. We have arranged for emergency donated breast milk to get to Mexico and we found a donor to overnight. We’ve arranged for some interesting bucket list items such as riding a grizzly bear while holding a bald eagle for a photo. Then more basic things like building a sales funnel for example. We work with a lot of businesses. We certainly work with individuals, but we work with a lot of businesses. Where a lot of virtual assistance companies when Valentine’s Day is coming up, they might see a lot of orders or tasks for people to buy a gift. What we get is the people who want to build a sales funnel to sell the gift to the people who want to buy the gift.
Let’s go back to the beginning when you had two people and you were then at that point trying to scale the company. What were the things you did? What mistakes did you make in the beginning that led you to have the team and the systems you have today?
It’s not a mistake per se but it was certainly a part of the growing pains of things. We’re very based on people and technology. I realize that covers the gamut for most companies, but we really actually go deep on both. We have really great training. We have an amazing team of people. Even though we don’t have a single employee, you wouldn’t be able to tell that because of the way that they dedicate themselves to their team members and to our clients. I really think that it’s something very special what we’ve created in terms of our team culture. The training has been really on me, so I really teach the productivity. That’s my job to teach people how to be as productive and effective as possible in what they’re doing including our own people. We’ve gone really deep on that. Then we’ve also gone really deep with technology. I think that we’re bringing analytics and data science to this business that many other companies don’t, at least that I’ve never seen or that I’m aware of.
The mistakes were twofold. One is that because we never put a cent into the company, literally we didn’t raise, we didn’t put any of our own money into the company. We’ve had to learn as we go about how much we can do the balance between investing money and building technology and running extremely, sometimes maybe too tight where we have to scramble to make our payroll that week because we don’t have any cushion roll. It’s a balance because we run on other people’s technology right now. We really need to get off it and be on our own so that we could more of self-sufficient. The people side of it, it’s one thing to train and manage ten people. It’s a very different thing to do that for 50 and certainly very different to do that for 200. There have been the ebbs and flows throughout the time where we’ve gotten waves of people that we were not hiring well. For example, we were not training well because we were trying something different or we weren’t changing the way we should. When you’re growing you can’t just say, “This works so we’re going to keep doing it.” You can’t do that. You have to be able to change what’s happening and try things out. There have been experiments that did not work and produced worse results. Fortunately, overall there have been better ones. A lot of it was just like fly by the seat of your pants to be honest.
I think we all start that way. I must say my advice would be, and don’t try this at home, I don’t advice starting a business with zero dollars, zero money, and no available cash in the bank to use for any types of management systems or training systems. I think what happened is that you were an experienced guy and you knew what you were doing at the beginning, and you felt your way through it. What was lucky is that you had that mastermind to seed your company with those ten people. That was really a perfect combination for you. What would you say to somebody listening to the show? Would you say, “That’s a good idea, let’s do it the way I did it?” What advice would you give to people who are in the middle of really scaling a company at this point?
I think that a lot of companies don’t take the time to do the data analysis that we have done, and that’s really been our saving grace for a lot of this. Either it’s because they don’t have the expertise or they just feel like they’re moving so fast that they don’t have time to stop and look. There are so many interesting metrics that come up in these fast-growth companies that you never hear of. Everybody talks about churn, that’s a really common word on how many clients were you losing on a regular basis. Depending on the business, a lot of people don’t identify how much time they’re spending on internally worked hours versus billable hours. That makes a lot of sense when you’re talking about like a law office. In any company, there’s work where you have employees in your team or people in your team that are working in the business rather than on the business. If they’re doing work to improve the system or process or have a meeting, then they’re not doing time with clients or billable. That ratio tells you a lot about the efficiency of your growth. We produce a lot of data with any company that produce a lot of data, and it’s very easy to just go, “Things are good. Let’s just keep going,” rather than identifying some of those things and stopping. That’s the hard thing, to stop for a second and take a look.
It makes a lot of sense. I like the idea of tracking things, I always have. I think that if you work with VAs and you are trusting these people to report the hours they work, how would you know exactly how much time they’re spending because they have full responsibility for signing their own time sheets, if you will? I know that you could use tracking software with people who are actively online, but at the same time there’s got to be an element to trusting all of this.
I would hope and expect that some of that comes with my reputation, and Nick’s reputation as well, that when we offer up our services they know that we’ve personally seen through it that they’re going to do a good job. Beyond that even, we guarantee all the work. Unlike in Upwork where you have to deal with the individual outsourcer because Upwork doesn’t actually really provide any support on that. We would be the ones who would check and be like, “They’ve definitely overbilled on that and we’re going to give you a credit.” We’re extremely transparent. This is the thing that actually helps us in that regard, and it’s never been an issue because of this. We bill by the second, which is unusual. The only reason we do that is because we use Toggl as our time tracker. Rather than having to create some fancy invoice and report, we simply share the actual Toggl report with our members directly. There’s built-in quality control there. Most clients have some expectation of how long something will take. When it’s a large undertaking, the assistant will give them an estimate of how long they expect it to take, and hopefully, they’ll meet that. Part of the data analysis that we can do is that we know on average how long it takes to do certain kinds of tasks. When something goes a certain way outside that average, it’s a flag. We have all sorts of safeguards in place for that. Because we bill by the second and because we do work so efficiently, we start to automate as much as possible, people seem to be happy.
I understand and I could see the transparency being a big benefit. At the same time, I agree that once you’ve basically accomplished the same thing over and over again, you know how long it should take. I think working with a group of virtual employees or in this case, I assume they are not employees at all but probably in one form or another, a vendor or an independent contractor. Is that right?
Right, they’re all independent contracts. We don’t have a single employee.
In that regard, you’re for the most part making sure that they’re using the systems that you’ve put in place. That was a learning curve. This is all good stuff. This is all the type of wisdom I love to get. I think it makes people understand that if you’re going to build a company and use virtual skill sets outside of the company, you need to keep track of that. One of the things we’ve done in the past is we have this thing we call a job book. Whenever we bring somebody into a particular project, it’s a responsibility of the position that they must document exactly what they did. If we don’t have training for it, we work with the actual independent contractor to develop the training while they’re doing the job. Have you ever done anything like that?
Yes. A big part of what we do actually, a big part of our ethos is process documentation. We use a tool called Process Street primarily for that, but we’re really big on documenting processes to the tee so that literally you could just give it to anybody and they will be able to do it. I’m actually trying to reduce training time in that way because you don’t need to train somebody if they can follow a good process. A lot of times, it’s not about better training, it’s about having better processes.
I think we’re on the same track when it comes to that as well. One of the things I wrote about in my book was the mindset of the CEO or in this case, the viewpoint of how someone manages an organization as large as yours virtually. Talk to me a little bit about the communication that you have with the individuals who are doing the work on a daily basis.
We are very big on asynchronous communication, not necessarily live calls or whatnot. We use Zoom pretty heavily for video conferencing. It’s actually really fun when we have our all hands huddle and we have over a hundred people on a Zoom call. It’s really cool. Primarily, we are on Slack so we’ve got hundreds of messages going back and forth on several Slack teams every day. Then we’re using Trello for project management of the actual task themselves both internally as well as with our clients. However, we are going to be releasing our own software, which will be a new way of managing projects and tasks. It will be open to the public but then it will have our systems built into it as needed if they want to offload things to us. That’s going to be a really, really big step forward for us in terms of scaling. Primarily, we’re using Slack. We don’t allow internal email communication at all. Email is a terrible tool for speaking to your own team so it’s all on Slack.
I would love to see the software and system that you’re currently building. It sounds very exciting. I love the integration of people and systems to make things work better. It sounds like you’re on a good path there. One of the things I also want to understand is how do you pay people across so many different time zones? Explain that process and maybe some of the systems you use for that as well.
We’re using primarily a tool called Payable, which just got bought by Stripe. It’s a payroll processing service. What’s nice is we basically take all of the Toggl reports, we put it into Payable. It knows everybody’s rate. It calculates all the payments, and it does it for domestic ones. All the US-based people are done that way. Anybody internationally has to be paid through PayPal. That’s a bit more of a manual process which we’re in the process of automating but effectively that’s it. It’s PayPal and Payable. There are other services that are probably cheaper than PayPal for doing international transfers, but they’re a little inconsistent and we just need to have something like a standard. Pretty much everybody, as much as they might hate PayPal, they still use it.
It is really a universal solution. You’re right, it’s not particularly cheap and it’s not particularly efficient. You know the trouble you can get into sometimes with the company, they could hold up your funds and customer service is not the best. PayPal does work most of the time for this kind of thing. Let me switch gears for a second. One of the things that I’m interested in, you mentioned that you pay people in the US. A lot of my clients have had difficulty with this whole independent contractor status thing in many states. I just want to explain it to everybody so they understand. I know you understand it. In many states, if you hire somebody as an independent contractor, those two words are code for, “Come and audit me.” In many cases, when I worked with BBI, Business Breakthroughs International, we had six unemployment claims on independent contractors who I personally had to go to court and deal with on an individual basis. What we came to was a whole different way of working with people in the US. I’m wondering what your solution is.
It is an interesting one. It’s very tricky. We have people in pretty much every state in the continental United States. We had somebody in Alaska but she’s now in Seattle. There are a few things. One is that we don’t tell them when to work or where to work. That’s important. We actually don’t even tell them what to work on. The way that our marketplace works is that a client will place a task, a manager will tag it as what the kind of category it is if it’s marketing or writing or something, and then the skill set, we have three levels: novice, intermediate and expert. That task will only be shown to people with that matching skill set and level. Then it’s up to them to choose it. If there’s a task that’s available and there are five people with that skill set, one of them is going to pick it up and grab it. The nice thing about that is we’re really not directing their work which is a key one. They’re getting to choose the thing that they want to work on the most, which always makes for a better experience for everybody. I would say that we don’t have anybody on the team that derives 100% of their income from us. That’s another key one. We have a lot of stay-at-home moms, a lot of people who are doing this as a side gig, which is fine. We don’t have an office, they don’t wear a uniform. We’re always cognizant of that because they do change the regulations fairly often. We tick all the boxes.
I think you probably have to stay super aware of what’s going on. I remember when I reviewed this several years ago with my accountant. He showed me 21 characteristics that you must pass in order to qualify somebody as an independent contractor. The trick here is that no one passes. Nobody can actually figure out how to completely pass particularly when it comes to all 50 plus states. You seem to have it under control.
We are very aware. When all else fails, that’s what insurance is for. They now have misclassification of employment status insurance basically. You can have insurance against the IRS deciding that your independent contractors are actually employees.
Have you ever used the PEO to solve this problem?
No, we haven’t. We don’t have employees. It would be an investment that we couldn’t necessarily justify.
Professional Employer Organization is someone that basically employs your people for you and yet they still report to you. You’re right, since you don’t really have people employed that it wouldn’t apply. What about salespeople?
I am primarily a salesperson. The way that we’ve grown has always been through organic referrals. We haven’t done any outbound marketing. We don’t do any inside sales type of thing. Again, it’s all very organic. People are referred. What we do is we’re part of several really great mastermind groups and organizations that end up being just the best referral sources for me. Because of the kind of work that we do, we’re definitely not a volume business. One client with us could do a massive set of sales funnels. We’ve written books for clients. We’re in this for the long haul. I’d rather work 3,000 hours a week for 500 clients than an hour a week for 1,000 clients.
That makes sense particularly given the skill sets that you’ve developed and the training that you have in place as well. Do you use learning management systems to help people learn?
No, we don’t. Actually, we’ve just started exploring using Lessonly for someone on-boarding. For the most part, we’re actually doing it through Intercom, which is really cool. Intercom, among other things, is a live chat service. You can have a live chat on your website. It provides you with the help center. That’s where a lot of our documentation is. Also, the little chat bubble can pop up day over day, and walk new people through the materials that we’d like them to be aware of and whatnot. The other thing that we do also is we have a membership site on Slack called the Leverage Labs. There are over 800 people on that now. Everybody who joins the team gets access to that as well. We have a 365-day drip sequence in there with one little interesting nugget every day, how to be more productive.
Who wrote that? Did you write that? The drip sequence.
It’s all my content but Courtney on our team who runs the Leverage Labs for us has been working on that tirelessly. That was all her. I can’t take credit.
These things evolve over time. What we’re seeing is the evolution of your enterprise over the course of the last several years. These are the amazing tools that you’ve come up with. This has really been an incredible conversation for me and I hope for my listeners as well. You’ve exposed us to some really great tools that we all can employ if we have the right application. Do you want to name anything else that you feel would be important for our listeners to know about?
One of the biggest things is that I push in a big way for people to get ideas out of their head in whatever form that is. Writing is very difficult for lots of people. That prevents people from getting some ideas out, that part of it. You need to have methods at your disposal that will allow you to get those ideas out. Voice recording is a very obvious one, I would say. If you’re using Slack, there’s a tool called Recordify that lets you record a voice message and load it up to a Slack channel. There’s also a plug-in for Slack called Clipchamp, which lets you do the same thing but with a video. I think that you have to remove as many barriers to entry for yourself as you can to get those ideas out of your head.
There is a whole world of Slack apps that I’ve just begun to explore. I use Slack with every one of my clients as well and I love it. They love it too. I love introducing someone new to Slack too.
Mitch, I’m the head of our PTA at school this year. I’ve gotten all the parents on Slack.
It’s just such a great tool for so many organizations. It’s just so useful. Even the PTA can use it, that’s great. Ari, this has been such a fantastic conversation for me. I really have enjoyed it so far. You did mention that you had two books. What are the names of the books and could you give us an idea of what they address?
When is that coming out or is that already out?
Idea to Execution came out several months ago. That is available on Amazon and audiobook and everything.
Which would you recommend someone start with?
The Art of Less Doing is definitely more personal-focused, but I think it also lays the foundation for what we teach in terms of productivity. That’s probably a good place to start. You can see how it applies to your own life. The Idea of Execution is definitely more for those who have a company or want to start a company and do it more efficiently.
Ari, I have a couple of questions for you. This is one of my favorite questions. I love to ask my guests this. It helps me understand really how you think. Who, in all of space and time, would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch or an intense conversation with?
I’m going to give you the answer but if you’ve ever heard this before, this person, then you have to stop me because I bet you haven’t. My person would be Harry Houdini.
I don’t think I have.
When I was five years old, I was a magician and I love magic. Harry Houdini was actually a real inspiration to me not just for the magic aspect but he really was an incredible entrepreneur in many ways. Pretty much every single magician that performs today has some roots, homage to Harry Houdini. He came over to the country with nothing and became an absolute superstar in a lot of our hearts. That would definitely be the person that I would want to spend some time with.
Have you read a book or studied his life? How do you know so much about him? Tell me a little bit about that.
Yes, I have. It was just a personal fascination. I’ve probably done four or five reports in high school and college on him and his life. A lot of what he did was real showmanship. He wasn’t magically escaping from these handcuffs and things. He did have special keys and tool hidden in his mouth or in other parts of his body. A lot of it was showmanship. He scared a lot of people. He shattered the status quo I guess that there were and really created a new art form in some ways, and extremely successful in doing so.
He never held to his final promise. Remember his final promise?
That he would come back, yeah.
For me, it was Thomas Alva Edison. I studied Thomas Edison all throughout my growing up years, read every book in the library about him, probably did as many reports as you did on him. He was my idol growing up. In many ways, my life mirrors a lot of what I learned about him in those early years. Those people influence us and that’s really why I love to ask that question. I have another question for you. This is the change the world question. What is it that you’re doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?
I really believe that we are shaping the future of work. As I said, we allow people to work when they want, where they want, on what they want, and they love this job. They’re having a major impact on the clients’ lives that they work with. I think that we are powering this future of work and redefining the way work gets done. The unemployment issues of the world, the resource scarcity for certain things in the world, I think that we have the potential to really help that.
I understand, Ari, that you have something special for my listeners. What would that be?
If they want to try out the VA service, they can go to GetLeverage.com. When they sign up they just mention you, Mitch, because it will be in a conversation. They just mention you and they’ll get an hour free on us when they join the service to test it up. There’s no commitment or whatsoever but they can try and see if they like it, and see if we can help them on that.
Listeners, go to GetLeverage.com and start getting some leverage because this is how you do it. Transformational leader, Ari Meisel, has been my guest. I’ve enjoyed this conversation. Ari, thank you so much for your generosity and sharing what you’ve learned, what you know. I can’t wait to talk to you again.
Thank you, Mitch.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Ari Meisel
- The Plant Paradox
- Nick Sonnenberg
- The Invisible Organization
- Fancy Hands
- Process Street
- Less Doing, More Living
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