FTC 253 | First Thing Startups Need

Do Not Launch Until You Know The First Thing Startups Need With Steven Hoffman

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Your new business won’t skyrocket until you know the first thing startups need: a great team! Mitch Russo’s guest in this episode is Steven Hoffman, CEO of Founders Space. Steven is one of the world’s leading startup incubators and accelerators with over 50 partners in 22 countries. Today, he will give you crucial tips that can either make or break your startup. Remember, money at the beginning won’t make you successful. YOU have to MAKE it successful. How? Tune in to find out!

Listen to the podcast here:

Do Not Launch Until You Know The First Thing Startups Need With Steven Hoffman

I have something special for all my coaches in the audience. As a coach myself, I realized that I’ve been spending about 30 minutes per session on admin because I had five applications open on all my screens all at the same time just to do a session. I had one for note-taking, my calendar, spreadsheet, browser, Zoom, and all past session history scattered all over my screens. At the end of the session, I had to combine all of that into a single email to send to my clients so they have a guide for our session and homework. I decided to get myself some professional coaching software to handle this and there was none. None that worked quickly, easy to learn and inexpensive. What does an entrepreneur do when they find a problem and there’s no solution? They build it. That’s exactly what I did. I built it for you. I built a coaching management system for my coaches in the audience. I want you to go to ClientFol.io. For $1, you can download and try it now. Now onto my guest and his incredible story. 

Breaking into the entertainment business was hard for my guest to do but eventually, he became a TV development executive working for an entertainment company producing over 100 TV shows and then acquired by MGM Studios. From there, my guest became one of the founders of several venture-backed startups in the area of gaming and entertainment. This was an eye-opener and the amount of fun that can be. He decided he loved startups like me and realized that launching a startup was both complicated and nuanced beyond what typical entrepreneurs understand. He decided to start a company where he could both educate and accelerate the entrepreneurial experience for his members. That became the beginning of Founders Space and is now one of the top startup accelerators in the world. He’s trained hundreds of startup founders and corporate executives in the art of innovation and provided consulting to some of the largest business organizations in the world. He’s here to help us with our startups. Welcome, Steve Hoffman, to the show.

It is great to be here.

Steve, you’re a legend in this space. You go back so long. I don’t want to call you old, but you’ve been doing this a long time with incredible success. Tell us how this all got started for you?

Entrepreneurship was in my blood. I always wanted to do my own thing like you. We have similar backgrounds. We’re always going off on our own. I can’t hold a normal day job. That was the beginning. I worked in Hollywood and it was great but I ended up quitting that to go on my own path. That journey, at first, led me to create games. I’m a huge gamer. You create what you love so I started creating games. My first game was a big success. It was called Gazillionaire. It’s still around. After all these years, people are still playing it. It’s all about teaching people to be entrepreneurs. I went full circle.

After three venture-funded startups, being in the trenches, experiencing all the ups, downs and craziness, I launched Founders Space as an accident. I was personally helping out my friends. They would come to me. My nickname in Silicon Valley is Captain Hoff and it’s also my gamer handle. They were going, “Captain, help me. I need to raise money. How do I pitch to investors? What legal documents do I need?” I was helping them out. They came to me with so many questions that I registered the URL Founders Space. I made it my blog and started answering their questions. It went from there. We ended up becoming an incubator, then we ended up expanding overseas. We have over 50 partners in 22 countries. It’s exciting because I love traveling and working with creative people, ambitious people and entrepreneurs who want to have a positive impact. This combines both.

The most important thing is not what you can build but what people need. Click To Tweet

What I also like about what you do, and I do it on a much smaller scale, is that you’ve built a network of resources all over the world. When you start working with a new client and they say, “We need translation services. We need marketing in the UK. We need three PHP programmers.” I’m sure at this point, you will probably go, “We can get that set up by tomorrow. Is that okay with you?” I’m sure you have that vast network of resources.

We do have a lot of resources, not just my own but my partners and the instructors. All of us have this network of resources. Let’s say you’re an entrepreneur and you want to enter the European market and you’re like, “We want to go to Germany and set up our operation there but who do we talk to?” We might not know all the details of all the different people you need, the marketing people and everything in Germany, but we do know the other key incubators and our partners over in Germany who can help you get started. We can always make a referral.

That’s part of the beauty of working with high-level investors. I remember when I built TimeSlips Corporation, I was the most unsophisticated financial person you’ve ever possibly met. I ran the entire business out of a checkbook. We never had any funding because I was afraid of funding. I was afraid that somehow we would lose the company because the VCs were much smarter than me. In the end, we sold the company. My partner and I kept it all, other than the bonuses we gave to our teams. The thing that I have come to learn is that it’s not about money. Money is a big important part. That’s what people are looking for. What they don’t realize they’re also getting is this vast network of connections. A guy like you brings hundreds of connections to the table. The synapses fire in concert when you hear somebody pitch by thinking to yourself, “I could connect them up into this one. I can pair them up with this guy. These two guys are doing things.” I’m sure this all goes through your mind.

One of the most important things I tell entrepreneurs at an early stage is don’t focus on raising money. Everybody thinks you need to go to venture capitalists, raise millions of dollars, and then you’re successful. Honestly, money, in the beginning, never makes your business successful. You have to make it successful. You have to figure who are the customers and what can I give them that nobody else is giving them. Money can only help you move faster. It can’t point you in the right direction.

Many entrepreneurs waste their time chasing money too early when I tell them to do what you did like build your business. You may not need their money. If you can exit without VC money or you can make a boatload of money for yourself, never take money. Bootstrap it. The most valuable thing you can do at first is start interfacing with people and making connections in your industry. Who are the people you need to know? Who are the potential customers? Who are advisors who can help you out? Who are all the different people you’re surrounding yourself with? Bringing on the best people on your team. That’s what matters. That’s what will make or break your business.”

I’m going to say what you said in a little different way. I want to add to your brilliant comments by saying that not having money is a gift. The reason it’s a gift is that it forces you to be resourceful. In my own story, when we started TimeSlips Corporation, we blew $6,000 of our $10,000 on two ads in PC Magazine which brought back zero results. What I had to do at that point was figure out how to market for free. That’s when I developed a PR strategy and it took months and months, then finally, it was working. I then developed the joint venture strategy all for free. All I kept doing was picking up the phone and calling people and visiting people. Before long, we had 30 joint venture partners who were promoting our product to 30 different audiences every day. If I would have been handed a boatload of money, I would have been too lazy to do those things, to be honest.

Money would stop you because you’d be placing ads all over the place instead of figuring out how to sell your product. A lot of times with a lot of startups, money can mask the problems. There are startups out there that raised tens of millions even hundreds of millions and failed because they kept acquiring new customers but the customers were never sticking. They didn’t stick long enough to break even. Because they had all this money, they ended up wasting it and then going off a cliff.

FTC 254 | First Thing Startups Need
First Thing Startups Need: At the very beginning, spend 80% of your time figuring out who you want to be on your team.


Part of this is the VC’s fault. We work with a company in Cambridge, Zero Stage Capital, back when we were funding Furniture Fan which was one of the venture startups that I joined. They would come in for a board meeting and they would reprimand me for not spending fast enough. I’m like, “I told you I operate a business out of a checkbook. I only spend what I have.” Because I had all this money, they were saying, “Spend faster. Why do you think we gave you all this money for?” I said, “We’re going fast enough. Why don’t you let me do it the way you hired me to do it?” It ended up biting them in the ass because we ended up leasing space we didn’t need because they thought we should. We ended up hiring people that were not ready to be hired because we haven’t perfected all of our internal processes yet. I got to put some of the blame on those VCs who push people to take the money before they figure out how to sell and maintain the consistency of ownership or subscriptions with the clients that they’ve signed.

The best time for VCs to come in are, number one, when you’ve totally figured it out and you have that engine down. Number two, when you’re ready to scale exponentially. The problem is the vast majority of businesses that entrepreneurs start aren’t even right for VCs. They aren’t scalable businesses in the way that tech VCs in Silicon Valley want. Giving them a lot of money can either do nothing or totally distract them from building their business. It’s important for the entrepreneur to understand what type of business they have. Investors don’t always make the right decision on picking the businesses either. Some are better than others.

Scalable businesses have something in common. Number one is that they figure out very clearly the ROI of their customer. For every customer they acquire, there’s a certain cost. Every customer they acquire has a certain lifetime value, which is how much revenue that customer can bring in over their lifetime. You only want to scale up acquiring customers if you’re going to be profitable when you spend all that money in advance. Push your company to grow faster. Growing faster matters most when you are in a market with a network effect. Meaning, the more customers and partners you bring onto your platform, into your business, the more valuable it becomes to all the people participating. These types of businesses are winner takes all. These businesses are perfect for venture capital.

I go back to my own experience. We didn’t know that but we did it somewhat intuitively. We waited until we had a solid product and until we understood who our market was. At first, we didn’t. That’s why the original $6,000 we spent in PC Magazine was worthless because we had no idea who our true client was. Our success was based on two things. Number one, understanding the customers’ needs and catering to them. Number two, being able to reach them effectively and efficiently, and having a good development team.

Those are the keys to what made us successful back then. Now, it hasn’t changed. I’m sure there are better tools. There are things like the internet. I didn’t have the internet when we started. We were sending floppy discs in the mail and we still figured it out. It’s important to have those components, which leads me to the next stage of our discussion here. If you wouldn’t mind, Captain Hoff, we’re looking for some tips. We’re looking for some mentorship here to those of us who are looking to you as we grow our startup. Where would you start in helping us figure this part out?

When you start your company, there are a few things I recommend at the beginning. Number one, spend 80% of your time doing this one thing and that is figuring out who you want to be on your team. It’s easy to get mediocre people on your team, but it’s hard to get excellent partners at the beginning. That can make or break your business. I tell entrepreneurs, “Before you do anything, it’s even more important than the idea because your ideas are probably half-formed. It may be right, it may be wrong but it’s probably not 100% right.” The people on your team, whether your idea is right or wrong, will be the ones to run with it. If they are good and you have this amazing team at the beginning, it doesn’t matter if you start off in the wrong direction. You can change direction. It doesn’t matter if you hit obstacles. You’ll figure out a way around those. If your team isn’t excellent, you will fumble the ball and somebody else will pass you up with that idea because there’s always somebody else out there doing it. You’re never alone. That’s number one.

My number two tip at the beginning is when you are going into the marketplace, don’t spend a lot of time building your product too early. A lot of entrepreneurs build the wrong product because they don’t understand the needs of the customer, what’s in the head of the customer, and where they can add value that somebody else hasn’t already added value. There are only two ways a startup can succeed in a big way to do a big scalable business. Number one, you have to create something exponentially better than anything else out there. That’s hard. That’s where technology comes in. If you’re using new technology, you can figure out how to do things much more efficiently, much better, and create more value to whatever your customer needs in a way that they aren’t getting from their existing providers. If you can’t do that, you have to create something different, something that provides a new value to them.

Money at the beginning never makes your business successful. You have to make it successful. Click To Tweet

Our ecosystems are always evolving because technology is changing the way we do business. There are always new values you can create in this world. Social media never existed before. Now, there are all these tools out there for social media. Those are all new creations based on where we’ve gone with technology and that will continue. There are always doors opening up and they’ll never stop because technology is continually advancing.

Once you do those two things, the third and final thing I recommend for entrepreneurs is don’t lock down on an idea. When you lock down on an idea, a lot of times you’ll put up blinders. You get so focused on proving your idea works that you stop seeing what’s important. The most important thing is not what you can build but what people need. An entrepreneur’s job, first and foremost, once they have the team and they’ve figured out all that is to go out and hunt for demand. It’s like you as an entrepreneur are hunting for oil. You’re a wildcatter out there in the oil fields drilling wells. It doesn’t matter how good you are at drilling wells. You can’t be the best at drilling wells ever. If there’s no oil, there’s no oil.

You have a business when you hit a gusher, and a gusher is pent-up demands. All of these people who are saying, “I need this,” might not even know what they need until they see it. When they see it, they’re like, “That’s what I need.” They start coming to you. That is a gusher. If you can hit a gusher, everything else falls in place. Your technology doesn’t matter until you figure that out. You pick the best technology to solve the problems that those customers have. The amount of capital doesn’t matter until you hit that gusher. It can’t do much at the early stage until you start seeing that people are demanding for it, and then you have to fulfill that demand. If you can do that as an entrepreneur, you win. If you never hit the gusher, all the other things don’t matter because demand is what drives business.

I can relate to every single thing you’re saying. Long-time readers know that I released a software product called Results Breakthrough. It was a co-accountability platform for entrepreneurs. It was an idea if I say so myself. Nobody used it or paid me for it so it wasn’t that smart at all. From that, I got a lot of knowledge. From releasing that product, I listened to what people said about what they truly wanted. I didn’t spend a lot to develop it. What came out of it was the product ClientFol.io. People don’t want to keep each other accountable. Even though they say they do, they rather have their coach do it for them. That’s part of what we built into the ClientFol.io software.

I would have never known that unless I had gone through the process of searching for my gusher first. Here’s the one other tip I would add. If you have a great idea and you want to accelerate this learning process that you described, sell it before you build it. Go out there and find customers before you write a single line of code. There are tools out there where I can mock up an entire software product that looks totally real but it’s nothing but screens. I could do a demo of a product for a potential client. If they say, “We want to buy this,” and you hear that over and over again, you know it’s worth building. Unfortunately, too many of us make the mistake of building it and then figuring out who wants it, which is completely wrong.

When I engage with early-stage entrepreneurs and I mentor a lot of them, I tell them, “At the beginning, you need to get inside your customer’s head. You need to see what they are seeing.” Honestly, if you go to your customers with this early prototype, I tell people, “You can never have a prototype too early.” You can start off with a PowerPoint presentation or an interactive model that looks like it has real coding behind it but doesn’t. You can start out with a video. It doesn’t matter. You get something in front of them.

FTC 254 | First Thing Startups Need
Make Elephants Fly: The Process of Radical Innovation

If they look at that and go, “I like that. Come back later when it’s done,” and you go and talk to 100 potential customers and you get that reaction, you know you are dead in the water. You will never succeed with this product. Why? Everybody is going to tell you, “I like that. Come back later.” They are blowing you off. If somebody needs your product, their reaction is totally different. Their reaction isn’t, “I like that. Come back later.” Their reaction is, “When can I get this? I want to get my hands on it. How do I do it? Can I be an early beta tester? We need this for our business.” If they write you a check, it’s even better, but you need that confirmation. That’s the only confirmation that counts. There need to be enough of those customers out there for you to build a sizable business. If you get that, you should move forward.

Another example of that is I have a buddy of mine who’s built all of his companies with this one single idea, “I will get a customer to fund the development before I build it.” He does exactly what you said, Steve. He’ll go right over to the clients and say, “If you think you need it and you like to get it, I would suggest buying it now at a big discount so we can deliver to you even faster.” They do. He’s done this twelve times. Every time, he does it exactly the same way. I wish I had you helping me back when I started TimeSlips Corporation. It might not have taken nine years to figure it out and sell it. There is no real substitute for learning this stuff the hard way. To me, the gift I received was being able to learn it the hard way and now be able to help others as you do figure it out on their own as well. Steve, what would be the best first step for someone to take who is sitting right now with a great idea? If they’re all excited about that great idea and they come to you, what would you tell them first?

If somebody came to me with a great idea, the first thing I would tell them is, “Forget about your idea.” If you are in love with your idea, it’s going to blind you because we all know love is blind. You can be infatuated with somebody and everybody will tell you, “They’re not right for you. It doesn’t work.” You’ll blow them off and you’ll say, “You don’t understand. This person is perfect for me,” until it’s too late. With ideas, in the beginning, you don’t know. If they’re great in your head, it doesn’t mean they’re great in reality.

Businesses only function in reality. They don’t work in your head. They have to be real for other people, which means it doesn’t matter how passionate you are and how much you love your idea. It matters how much your customers do. I would tell them, “You need to know if your customers are in love with your idea.” I don’t care if you are. The faster you can do that, the better. Don’t put too many resources into this idea. Don’t go too far until you can validate that. That is the hardest thing because there are many good ideas on paper. You will even go to the smartest investors in the world and they will have been fooled. They will have looked at ideas that seem perfect but when they took them out into the real world, they were duds. If they can be fooled, I guarantee you, you can be fooled.

I can tell you a little story about my first venture-funded startup. The first startup I did was bootstrap. I built this game Gazillionaire. We built a series of games and they did well. We were fortunate. I built them not knowing anything and without testing the market. I just put them out there. I did everything that I shouldn’t have done but I got lucky. That happens too. You can break every rule and you could still get lucky, and it works. In the second startup, I took a different approach. We came up with product ideas and went out into the market to test them.

The first idea we came up with was a tool. This was in the early days of the internet when JavaScript was first out there and people were first building these widgets that plug into websites all new. We built a tool called Jabber Chat that could be embedded in any website. It was one of the earliest website widgets. People could come on that site and they could chat with each other while playing casual games. It was a fun thing. I got a huge distribution on this. All these websites we’re embedding it but we had no money. We were bootstrapping this at the beginning. We put it out there and what happened is that at a certain point, we said, “We have to make money.” We submitted it to a big contest, South by Southwest and we won first prize. We’re like, “We’ve got it made.”

We decided to embed advertising into this. We put these banner ads and they were brand new. Google didn’t even run ads at that time. It was that early. We put them into our platform so that we could start to make money. At the end of the month, we had enough money from all our distribution partners to buy a pizza. We couldn’t even feed our team. We thought it was a great idea and it was, but timing is everything. We were too early. The ad market wasn’t there and we didn’t know how to raise venture capital at that time. It was our first time. We had no investors. It didn’t matter. We had nothing we could live off of.

We decided we would sell our platform, the back end massively multi-user gaming system to game developers. We found that we were too early. In those days, developers didn’t want platforms. They wanted to build it all themselves. It was too much work to customize it for each customer. Finally, we latched on to a new idea and we said, “What if we synchronize these online games to TV broadcast?” We heard that MTV was looking for this exact thing called Viacom. We kept calling the senior vice president of Viacom Interactive saying, “We have the platform for you. We can build this for you,” even though we hadn’t built it yet. He never responded and he never called back because we’re this crazy little startup called Spiderdance and he had never heard of us.

Forget your idea. If you are in love with your idea, it's going to blind you because we all know love is blind. Click To Tweet

What we did was my partner got invited to speak at this big CES conference in Las Vegas. She went up there and started talking about our interactive television product before we even built it. We had the gaming part, not the TV part. After her talk, this guy comes running up from the audience panting and was like, “I have to talk to you. I am the senior vice president of MTV. We need your product.” She said, “We know. We’ve been leaving voice messages for you for two weeks now.” It just magically happened. They wrote us a giant check which funded our company. That got us over the stage. Later, we raised venture capital and we were off to the races. In those days, they didn’t have the lean startup method but essentially, we were doing that. We were learning the lean startup method as we went along. What we need to hit that demand, the real partner that’s going to write you the checks and make your business, how do you get there? This is what I teach to entrepreneurs.

One of the first lessons I learned the hard way is that great PR can change everything. A quick story when we were promoting TimeSlips in the early days, I went to COMDEX with a suitcase filled with 100 copies of the software. I spent ten days walking around talking to anybody who would talk to me about any possible means of distribution or publicity. I came home 100 copies lighter and I felt like I hadn’t accomplished anything. Ninety days later, I got a phone call from someone who claimed to be a fact-checker for InfoWorld. I’m sure you remember. InfoWorld was the premier software weekly publication that went to everybody in the industry.

Like you, we were calling Kenfil and all these distributors to try and get our product into distribution and into retail stores. Crickets, no one would respond. Once this review was published, we were rated the highest anyone has ever rated software back then. We were rated a 9.3. Only WordPerfect got that same rating. At that point, we went from selling 6 copies a week to 600 copies a week. We had to double the price because distribution was involved and we needed to make sure that we could still make our margins. The point I wanted to make about what you said is that if you wouldn’t have had that publicity, the whole world would have been different for you. That is the same thing that I would say about my own company in my own experience. PR, being in front of the right people at the right time and maybe even being endorsed by the right people at the right time can make or break a company.

It’s important for entrepreneurs to be scrappy and go out into the world with their products as early as possible and start to get people excited about them. You never know which connection is going to be the big one. You had your experience at your show where somebody you met got you the publicity you need. When startups begin, I usually say they need three types of people on the team and this is true now more than ever. The number one person they need is somebody who can sell, sell the vision, sell the product, get people excited, potentially get investors excited, get customers excited, get the employees excited, and is out there selling that vision of what they have.

Number two, if there are technical startups, they need somebody who understands technology at a deep level. Outsourcing isn’t good enough because you need to iterate on the product. You need somebody in there who can constantly be innovating, making it better, figuring out the latest thing, and taking all the feedback from the customers and putting it into the product. You need this technologist, product manager type person.

The third person, which in today’s world is important and didn’t use to be as important, is a designer, somebody who understands user and customer experience because a lot of products now all look similar and they all have similar features. The ones that end up winning are the ones that resonate with users. The user who engages with the product falls in love with it and that comes from great design. Those three pieces working together are what take companies to the next level.

Steve, this has been helpful and valuable. Your words of wisdom will be heard by thousands of people. I can tell just how I am reacting that this was an incredible time that we got to spend together and talking about this. I’m going to transition to the questions that I ask all of my guests. They’re silly questions in some ways but they help us get to know you a little bit better and maybe what and who your values are. Here’s the first question, who, in all of space and time, would you like one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch or an intense conversation with?

The one person I would want to walk in the park with in all of time is Socrates. Why? Because he wouldn’t tell me anything but he would force me to think by asking me a zillion questions and not letting me off the hook.

FTC 254 | First Thing Startups Need
First Thing Startups Need: The number one person you need in your team is somebody who can sell the product and get people excited.


It’s funny, I’ve asked this question over 300 times and I do occasionally get people saying the same names but I never get the same reason twice, so congratulations. That’s a completely different reason than anyone else who’s ever used the name Socrates on the show before. It makes a lot of sense because isn’t that the Socratic method? That is exactly what he would do. It would be a brilliant experience to be in the presence of the man who invented that way of thinking. It’s great.

It’s the method I use for mentoring entrepreneurs. My job isn’t to tell them everything that’s right or wrong because I’m one point of view. My job is to get them to think deeply about their business and pose questions potentially that they can’t answer, that they need to go out and figure out, that will guide them to the right answers.

The best way to coach as well is to get people to use their own thinking to arrive at the place where you know they need to be, even though you may not know exactly where that is which is perfect. This is the grand finale. This is a change-the-world question. What is it that you are doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to change the world?

One of my biggest passions in life is educating people. That is why I wrote my book, Surviving a Startup and Make Elephants Fly. Those books were about my passion for learning where I learn everywhere I go and for imparting that knowledge to other people and getting them to think. If I could do one thing, it would be to find a new type of educational system that makes anybody start their own projects and carry those projects through, a project experience-based educational system where people learn by doing and experimenting in the same way that entrepreneurs learn when they start their business.

In the future world, memorizing facts won’t matter. It’s good to have a base of knowledge. I am always sucking in new knowledge. All this information is available at a touch away on your phone. Soon, it may be embedded in our heads. What people need to understand is a process for how to bring an idea that’s in their head into actuality, how to make that happen. That type of educational system, we’re doing a bit of that at Founders Space. I’d love to take it to the next level and take it to younger students everywhere so they can start learning earlier.

Anybody reading this, Steve, who would love to join you in that quest, can they reach out and get in touch with you as well?

If somebody wants to reach me, I’m super easy to get ahold of. Go to FoundersSpace.com and contact me. We have a contact form in there. Put my name in there and reach out. I am on every social network under Founders Space. Whether it’s Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and Twitter, I’m there.

I wanted to validate one of the things you said. Many years ago, I helped Tony Robbins build a learning management system for one of his courses. One of the things that he said, “We can’t just vomit facts and knowledge onto people and expect them to learn it. What we have to do is make sure that they’re using it at each stage of their learning.” When we created something that was information-based, we also create a companion task list or action list that they had to do in order to go on to the next step. It’s exactly what you’re describing. It’s learn something, do something, build on that, learn something new, build on that and do something as well. It’s a perfect and brilliant way of describing how people can move quickly.

Some people might think, “That’s going to slow me down.” It’s the opposite. They’ll speed you up because what you’re doing is you’re compounding your knowledge. Another thing that’s interesting that Tony also shared with me is as this process begins, it changes exponentially. The rate at which you can absorb data goes from very slow and gentle to rapidly accelerating in a gentle way because of the amount of doing that you’re mixing with learning. It’s a great way of viewing it. I love your mission. Steve, you did promise that every one of my readers is going to get something free. What is it that you have for us?

Don't go too far with your ideas until you can really validate that your customers are in love with them. Click To Tweet

HarperCollins launched my new book, Surviving a Startup, the name says it all. It teaches you everything you need to know to survive. We are giving away full access to our complete online startup program for anybody who buys the book. All they have to do is go to FoundersSpace.com/Promo and they can get that.

If you’re reading and you don’t do that, then you’d be missing out. I’ll be going there as well. I would love to see your course because I’m always learning like you, Steve. If I could learn from you, that would be even better. Thank you for the outstanding experience of being with you and sharing your incredible knowledge with the readers. You can always access everything we said by going to YourFirstThousandClients.com. Go to Steve Hoffman’s show page and there will be a link to his books, his program, and this incredible bonus where you could buy one book and get an entire course that goes with it. Thank you, Steve. I can’t wait until we get a chance to talk again soon.

Thank you. It’s been my pleasure.

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