It is only when you give yourself permission to fail that you also give yourself the permission to succeed. This is one of the first lessons Heather Havenwood set out for a career in corporate America and had a lot of moments to ask herself what she really wanted to do next. Heather shares how she lost everything and realized she wasn’t a failure, rather she made a critical mistake. She has built an online information marketing company from zero to a million dollars and developed a passion for helping women in business to be financially self-sufficient.
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Building An Online Information Marketing Company From Zero To One Million with Heather Havenwood
I want to introduce you to someone who has a great story to tell about building an online information marketing company from zero to $1 million in twelve months. After that happened, Huffington Post named her as one of the top 50 women to follow in 2017. She’s the author of seven books that range in topics from dating, podcasting, and running the company as a sexy boss. She is focused on working with authors to build their brand, creating an impact, and sell a lot of books. Welcome, Heather Havenwood.
Thank you so much, Mitch, for having me.
You have such a great range of information that you provide, and you have an incredible story. Tell us where did all this start? How did it begin?
It began like most people. It started in corporate America for me. I was told, like most Americans, to go to college, get a degree, work for the big man, and make him a lot of money. Then they’ll give you a little and life is good. That’s how I was told and so I started working for a company called SPC Global, a large telecommunication company in 1995. I sold cell phones. I was around during the first text message back in the day. I started doing that at a very young age. I was 25 years old and I was in business-to-business sales. What you knew about corporate America is a business-to-business sales. Usually, the average age was 40, male and I talked my way into that position. They thought I was going to fail. They said, “Give her three months. If she doesn’t make the quota, then don’t worry about it. We’ll put her in customer service.” I was there for four years, which in business-to-business sales, is a long time. In my last year, I was number one in the country out of 10,000 reps and not out of the city or the state but out of the entire United States of America. I was beating people in New York, LA, Chicago, and I had never done sales in my life.
I didn’t fit the mold. One, I wasn’t 40. Two, I wasn’t a male. I don’t have a beer gut and I was cute and pretty and blonde, but they fired me. They fired me because I didn’t fit the mold and I beat everybody in the country and in my district. If you’ve ever been in situations where you’re not sure what to do next, but you know it’s just not that. You’re not sure what there is to do next, but you’re sure what not to do. It was one of those moments for me. All my friends were, “Just go back to another corporate job. You’ve obviously done well in sales. You’ll be fine,” but I didn’t want to do that again. I didn’t want to go back in sales and have someone pull out the rug from underneath me. I didn’t know what to do next specifically. I didn’t want that.
As luck would have it or God or universe would have it, I was sitting on the couch with my girlfriend who just got married, year 2000 before 9/11, and she slips the channel and then this infomercial comes on and it says something like, “Do you want to control your life? Do you want to make more money?” I’m like, “What do I do now?” They said go to the seminar the next day at this hotel, free event, 1:00 PM. I sat in a chair, free preview, and they tried to sell me into a $3,000 seminar, which I didn’t have because I was no longer employed, but then I did the magic thing. This is so entrepreneurial. They said the magic words, “For your spouse, it’s only $1,000,” so I nudged the stranger next to me and I’m like, “Can I be your spouse?” He’s like, “Sure. What’s your name?” It was a great idea, so we go to the back, different last names, no rings, different addresses, different credit cards and I’m his spouse. We were great. They were happy to take my $1,000. They knew if they’d said no that I couldn’t afford it. I gave them my credit card for $1,000 with my hubby, who I don’t know to this day. The base of the point was that the people in the room were like, “Who are you? You’re different.” I was young and so I ended up traveling the country for that company. They were like, “Why don’t you come work with us?” That’s how I got in this business. I ended up traveling the country 50 weeks out of the year and produced about 450 events between 2001 and 2007.
You said that you realized at that moment that you didn’t know what you wanted to do next, and these moments are gold. These are the moments that define exactly who we are. I want to tell you about one of my moments. There’s a good and a bad story like this in my life. The good one is I sold my company and I ended up working for the company who bought us. I eventually finished my earn-out period and then I resigned from that company and here I am, sitting with a gazillion dollars. I had made a lot of money and didn’t have to work ever again the rest of my life. Then I asked myself, “What do I want to do next?” It was one of those moments that hit me, and I said, “I’m not in a rush. Let me think about what I want.”
In that period of time, over the course of that next year, I allowed myself the freedom to explore all different types of things, but then there was another moment in my life when my best friend and partner, Chet Holmes died. In a matter of months, I found myself resigning from the very company that we had grown from zero to $25 million in sales along with Tony Robbins. There I was, sitting there on January 2nd, 2013, sending that resignation email and thinking the same exact thought, “I wonder what I’m going to do next.” It’s a great moment in time and you seized the day. Tell us what happened next.
I knew Chet Holmes. I didn’t know that you worked in that organization. When he died, it was a big deal in the speaker space. I started in the speaking industry in 2001, so you and I probably have a lot of the same similar friends. I started traveling the country and the speaking industry information marketing is small, so I was in the information marketing industry, specifically in real estate. We were teaching people how to buy and sell houses. I worked for the largest seminar company in the country, Dynetech. They were the largest seminar company in the country at the time. They owned about five different brands that they represented: Robert Allen Institute, American Cash Flow Institute. These are all brands that they created. I worked for that company and that’s where I began to learn the art and science of sales, one-on-one sales, one-on-many presentation, closing the stage, copywriting, and direct response. That’s where I learned about Dan Kennedy. I worked with Ted Thomas, Alex Mandossian, and then I started going into online marketing really heavy. I started going to the big seminars and Armand Morin was dating me. I started doing that and that’s where I ended up getting a business partner. We went from zero to $1 million in one year in 2005.
In 2005, you were with a new partner, you’re starting a new business, and it seems to catch fire pretty quick. This thing is like your rocket ship. It is taking off and you’re making $100,000 a month almost. What happens next?
I was a business partner with him. He was the content, the knowledge of real estate investing, and I was the marketing. I did all the things like the branding, the naming, the seminar creation, the content creation piece, how we market it, how we get affiliates, and how we sell the product. I taught him how to sell. People look at an author, speaker, Tony Robbins, or even Oprah, there are two pieces of the business. There’s the person who’s fulfilling, the Chet Holmes and Tony Robbins, and then there’s Tony Robbins, there’s the fulfillment, and then there’s the backend, which is the business side. That’s where I did very well. He didn’t know anything about that, so I was the information marketing expert. We did very well from zero to $1 million and things were great, until he wanted it all for himself. I came home one day from an event and he had emptied the bank accounts, turned everything off, and left me with a debt, took the business and ran. Since he was a lawyer, he knew what he was doing. He wrote the contract for himself. My house was in foreclosure within two months and I was bankrupt within six months.
How did you let this happen? Where was your attorney?
I didn’t have an attorney.
Lesson number one, expensive, but one mistake you’ll never make again. Your business and life are pretty much crashed. What did you do next?
It took a while for everything to hit. This was about 2006, so the market in Florida had already turned and the market was starting to go down. I tried to sell the house and the house was upside down quite quickly because the market turned fast in 2006 to 2007 in Central Florida. I went through the process and ended up with nothing except me, my car, and my dog. I lived in people’s couches for a while. I didn’t know what I was going to do. People trying to figure it out, what happens when we have an identity in something, when we have an identity in a cause or an industry that is crumbling, because I wasn’t the only one crumbling. That situation happened but now all my friends in the industry were crumbling. They we’re all going down. At that point, it was bad timing so everyone around me was thriving. People were starting to get hit slowly.
It shook me because in my view, in most people’s view, we see ourselves as smart and intelligent. It’s hard for us to look at, “I failed or I’m a failure.” One day during that process, one of my biggest mentors told me to get a piece of paper and write exactly what he said. He said, “I, Heather, give myself full permission to fail.” I remember when he made me write it, I couldn’t write it. I was pretty much crying my eyes out. I remember that moment because he said, “Heather, it’s not until you give yourself full permission to fail do you give yourself full permission to succeed. You’re not a failure and you didn’t even fail. You did something amazing, and he’s a jerk and he wanted it for himself.” That business is still thriving to this day. We start to look at, “She went bankrupt,” or “She lost everything. She must have failed.” Did I though? Did I fail or did I just have a bad business partner that chose to be greedy?
We’re all on a journey, Heather. Failure, success, all of these are simply movements of life. We don’t fail until we call ourselves a failure. Don’t you agree?
At some point, you have to give yourself full license to fail. That’s a better way to frame that. The way I like to look at that is an athlete. If you look at a football player, the first thing they learn is to tackle. They learn to throw the ball, but one of the biggest things they learn is how to get hit. Entrepreneurs don’t teach themselves how to get hit or to foresight on how to get hit. They get hit and then they get taken out and sometimes they never recover. They don’t learn how to get hit. It’s interesting you said that about the lawyer. I was on a show and they said, “What’s your number one lesson learned from the bankruptcy?” I said, “The number one lesson I learned was my lawyer is now on speed dial.” They laughed and go, “Come on.” I’m like, “No, I’m not kidding. I’m clear. I trusted my business partner who happened to be a lawyer. I trusted the conversation. I trusted the contract.” When you’re 30 years old and you’re a woman and you’re trying to prove to people that you’re worthy and you’re valuable and you’re so excited for the opportunity, you don’t go, “We’ll look at the contract.” There are tons of artists and actors and actresses that had the same experience. My number one lesson is I have a couple of lawyers and they’re on speed dial.
You don’t need to be a woman and you don’t need to be in any way thinking of yourself as naïve when this happens. I once took a sales position without even a letter of agreement. When I started to earn commissions after fourteen months, my boss had a check for $34,000 in his hands and said to me, “You’re young to be making this money. I’m going to reduce your commission by 5%.” I said, “How dare you? You told me I had this amount as my commission.” He said, “It’s not in writing anywhere, so I could do whatever I want, can’t I?” Can you imagine? From that point on, I never did anything without a contract and I still don’t, which is unfortunately a lesson always expensive, but once you learn it, you learn it. What happened next?
I built another business from zero to $1.5 million in 2015 as a weight loss company, and I’m in the process of selling that to my partner. I’m focusing on helping women and men, but really women, on how to be self-sufficient financially. That’s my passion. I work with authors that already have some message, whatever that message is, and then how do they take that message and create a business with exposure, visibility, leveragability and profitability. It’s how do they take that message and make money from it. Most authors don’t know how to take what they want to talk about and make a business about it. They think selling the book is the business, and it’s not the business.
Are you helping people create their book? Or are you helping them once they have their book create the business behind their book?
I am not helping them create the book. There are tons of programs for that. There’re writing coaches. Once they have the book, it could be two years or ten years after they wrote. It could be they’re launching it. The number one common complaint I hear from authors is that their publisher didn’t do anything, “They said they would help me.” They don’t know how to market. They’ve learned for the last six months or a year on how to write, on how to create and craft a book, but they don’t know how to market. That’s where I come in. Now that you have this message, how do we create a business around the message? Chet did that very well. I have one of his books, The Ultimate Sales Machine. He did an amazing job of having books, but also building a business around the book
That was our business together and then later, we brought Tony Robbins in and created the joint company called Business Breakthroughs. I have a book that I wrote after I left Business Breakthroughs. It’s called The Invisible Organization: How Ingenious CEOs are Creating Thriving, Virtual Companies. I would be potentially a good client for you, so why don’t you start with helping me and let the audience see exactly what they should do with their own book.
The first thing I do is what I call a deep dive into someone’s business, look at the current structures of the business. They have the book, which you already have. The question always on the table is, “What was your intention with the book?” With my book, Sexy Boss, I did not have the intention to create a business around it. It was about my personal story and I wanted to share it. As people wanted to consistently ask me about it and I’ve been on over 300 podcasts and interviews since then of me sharing my story. The first thing I look at is the story behind the book. What’s the why behind it? The second piece is what was the intention? What was the reasoning for creating it? What was the intention? Where did you want to take it? Most people go, “I was hoping to speak and I’d make money.”
The speaking business has changed a lot since we started in 2001. I started in 2001 where there was this thing called true speaking business and people got paid $2,000 to $4,000 to show up and speak. Those days are over. Where things are at now is it’s in some level of product and/or service or an actual physical product, so books can be the back and be a physical product as well. We look at what is the business you currently have and then where are you going to use and leverage the book to get more clients in the current business model or creating a business model. The question I have on the table is, “What kind of business model do you have behind the book?”
Most of us write books. Most of us who do what I do, which is a coaching and consulting for organizations, want to build certification programs and take their company and create virtual organizations as well. My intention behind the book was to create a blueprint for CEOs to convert their own physical brick and mortar company into a virtual organization. The goal of the book is to help them do that, and my belief was that by having the book out there as my business card and in circulation and on Amazon. I would start to receive thousands or hundreds of requests for consultations. That didn’t happen. Where did I go wrong?
I can’t speak to what you did wrong. I’d have to look at the entire business model, but I would say where you can go forward is focusing on the hero’s journey and how you can share your personal story on radio, on summits, on YouTube, on podcasts. The more that you are sharing your personal story about the book, people will start to become more attracted to you for that. That’s the first place I look at. Most authors aren’t very good at sharing stories. They’re good at sharing content or maybe writing, but they don’t know how to share their personal story or lay their personal story on top of the hero’s journey. That’s the first place I look at, how can we take your personal story and lay it on top of the hero’s journey that segue into the book. You said something interesting that I don’t believe in anymore which is, “The book is our business card.” That’s an old school way of looking at it. The new way is to say my message and then there is a book around that, but what is the message that you want out there in the world and then what are the different cascade ways that you’re delivering that? It’s a shift on reframe. It used to be back in the day that the book was the business card. Nowadays with books being so virtual, no more Barnes & Nobles just to hang out in. It’s almost like an avenue of the message.
If someone has this book and they haven’t quite been as successful with it as they liked and that book covers the type of work that they currently do, how would you reshape the message that they already have told inside the book to turn it into more of a marketing program around the book?
Every message is different, so I’d have to look at the particular message. Yours is the Invisible CEO. There are different services that can come off of yours. One could be to team up with a virtual service company that places virtual employees inside of entities. I know a company that does that. Another one is training and hiring people virtually. That’s a whole new world. I know a company here in Austin that does that. You spend about $1,000 to $3,000 in working with them and figuring out exactly what virtual assistant that you want specifically for the CEO, and then he goes out and finds that person. There is a certain kind of person that knows how to work from home or virtual and be a part of a team. Nowadays, the conversation of invisible team or virtual team is a very specific one. I could see the person writing the book, you, the author, going into many organizations and teaching them how to have their employees be virtual, sometimes in the office, sometimes not. That’s a huge service. It’s more of a service-based business and less of coaching and consulting.
Take the content of your book and look at it and see what elements of what you’ve already written might be valuable as a service to others. Many of us have probably done some of that, but Heather’s suggestions are good. Literally go to a company with your book in hand and say, “I want to help you get this part of what you’re trying to do done.”
That’s one that’s overlooked a lot. For instance, if this is your book and then you’re the author, you could go to these other companies that already have that service and partner with them and become an affiliate, like I’m in partnership with a company that we do Chatbots. We’re building that Chatbots for authors, speakers, and small businesses. I’m not the one doing the build out, but we have a partnership. I come in as the consultant marketing side to hone the message and then the actual tech piece, they are the tech partner at this point. They come in and do the tech piece. I didn’t have to build that out. It was already built out. They’re already building that out with their tech team and then I step in and become pretty much a business development team member. It’s very common. There’re multi-million dollar companies that partner with things like Salesforce and Microsoft all the time that become the biz dev for these large entities, these tech partners. Sometimes small business owners forget about that. You can do the same thing.
You mentioned about making sure that you know your ‘why’ and then using your ‘why’ as a method of communicating the content and passion behind what you’re trying to do. For the audience who don’t understand what knowing your why is, go to YouTube and look up Simon Sinek and you’ll know immediately that you found them when you see eighteen million downloads of his very popular 18-minute TED Talk about knowing your why. I like what you said, Heather, because if you start with your why, then the entire framework for your book will emerge much faster as it did for me.
I’m just now figuring out my why. Sexy Boss was published in 2013. Sometimes we don’t know our why. We are trying to figure it out. It’s one of those important things and I don’t want it to have it stifle people. It’s one of the worst questions we ask sixteen to eighteen year olds, “What do you want to do?” I know people who are 40 and don’t know what they’re doing, much less a seventeen-year-old. It’s one of the worst questions, “What are you going to do the rest your life?” “I want to go to the prom next week.” It’s a hard question. I’m in producing seminars. I think of 450 events, each event is three days. Think of all those hours of talks I’ve listened to of motivational speakers and mindset speakers. Thousands and thousands of hours and I heard so much of what your why, what’s your why, and I remember thinking to make money like breathe. It was one of those weird questions for me. I’m just now getting that for myself.
Knowing your why is knowing your why for today. It doesn’t mean that you have to know your why for the rest of your life in the next five minutes, but by asking the question and exploring it in a meaningful way, it brings you closer to helping you feel centered about what you want to do. Just like you mentioned, my why has changed, but at the same time for me, every time I go through this exercise, it brings me closer to what my true passion is, and that’s why I love the process so much.
What’s your why?
It turns out that I’m a guy who likes to find a better way, so my why is how I find a better way and I can apply that to almost anything. I’m applying it to helping young people find their core mission in business. I built a program called the ten-minute mentorship program. What I do is I connect the members of the Results Breakthrough Network directly to intercity high schools that will then connect to any intercity high school kids who get to talk to an adult in business once a month for ten to twenty minutes and help them realize their dreams. That has become my primary why as of today. I started out with how can we make things better. You could imagine how annoying this must be for my wife, she says, “Can I talk to you?” I said, “Yes, of course,” and we talk. Then all of a sudden, “What am I doing? I’m looking for ways to fix the situation that she’s telling me about.” She doesn’t want me to fix it, but I can’t help it. It’s just my nature. I just always think of ways to fix things and make them better, so it’s a blessing and maybe a little bit of a curse at the same time. You’re helping these incredible authors who have fantastic messages understand the process of how to take their book and turn it into money. What do you do for people besides what we’ve just talked about? What’s the next step for them?
I’m going to start creating the marketing plan. I’m a marketing coach and consultant, so start to look at the marketing plan. One of the things I always tell my clients is that they are not allowed to buy any products on how to do social media or how to do YouTube for six months. They have to detox because what happens is as a human being, when they purchase a how-to product, they feel like they’re doing something. That’s not the case. I learned that from Ron LeGrand. I worked for Ron LeGrand for many years. He is one of the top real estate investor gurus/ inflammation marketers and a good real estate investor for many years and is Dan Kennedy student. I remember that one of my coworkers at the time was saying to him, “I don’t want to sell that person into another three day how to buy and sell real estate because I already know that they bought another one like that last month. It feels odd to me out of integrity.”
Ron looks at that person and says, “That’s not your job and that’s not your call.” The average real estate investor spends between $40,000 and $60,000 in real estate education before they made their first deal. They’ll buy how to buy and sell houses from Ron LeGrand, and then they’ll buy how to buy and sell houses from Robert Allen, and then they’ll buy how to flip from somebody else’s. All pretty much the same content; there are only so many ways you can buy and sell and flip the house. The reason why they continue to buy is because they feel like they’re doing something and also increasing their confidence to a point where after literally hearing the information so much, they feel confident to do it.
I think that’s an old way of thinking. The best way to teach anybody anything is to help them experience the knowledge as opposed to just teach it to them. I get what Ron LeGrand said, “It’s not your job, not your call, whether or not they should buy it or not,” and I do understand the process of buying course after course if in fact you’re completing them, if in fact you’re studying them, and if you’re getting something out of them, but the model has changed. Have you seen that as well?
That’s why I had my client stop buying anything. It’s called detoxing. I work with them on what is the plan that’s best for them, not teaching them anything, not going down to “Let’s talk about YouTube video techniques.” It’s more like what is going to be the best model for you. Should even be doing YouTube videos? It might not work for your business. There’re all these things and there’re all these opportunities and they feel like they have to do everything. My take is “No, you don’t. Let’s figure out what’s going to be best for you and your company.” That’s why I ask people to detox because the human psychology, the human brain wants to keep buying and I’m like, “Stop the buying and let’s get into action.” The best way to do that is detox and then move people right into the action piece.
Why do you think that psychology exists? What do we get from buying program after program? Is it this process of preparing ourselves?
It’s a lot of things. We’re taught that at school. We show up at school at 7:00 AM, we go there until 3:00 PM, and it looks like we’re doing something. We just go through the classes and will eventually graduate, but they’ll probably push us through. Do we really have to show up? It’s that old thing where we’re taught, especially in America. I know people who failed, and they still pass them. There’s that element of society that’s like, “Just show up,” and so we’re taught just to show up. We’re not necessarily taught to do the work and it feels good to show up. It feels good to show up at that seminar, it feels good to be around other people that I know I can trust. It feels good. Is that dopamine? Does it mean there we’re leaving the event and doing the work?
That’s a Forest Gump statement, 80% of success is showing up. I think you’re right, 20% of success is showing up.
We’re taught that show up and things will happen. I’m not saying that’s not accurate because there’s a huge accuracy, show up in life. There’s also you’ve got to get on the field. If I was a football player and I worked for Jerry Jones, the Cowboys, and I said, “Jerry, I don’t want to get a hit today. I just want to hang out on the sidelines and just like I’m here, I look good in my suit.” He’d be like, “Get off my field. You’ve got to get in there and get hit. You got to get in there and move the ball. If not, you’re not doing your job, you’re not doing what you’re supposed to do. You can look good all you want on the sidelines, but I’m not paying you. Get off my field.” That’s the piece where there’s the showing up and then there’s the doing the work.
What would you say is the big takeaway for the audience who has a book, who has not yet found the success out of that book that they truly want? What would you advise them to do? What is the first great action that they could take to change that?
Learn how to share your personal story, number one. My caveat to that is it’s not your resume, no one cares about your resume.
They love your story. They don’t care about your resume, but your story is incredible. I have a question for you. It’s one of the questions I ask every single guest because it helps me understand exactly what they care about and what’s meaningful to them. Who, in all of space and time, would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch or an intense conversation with? Tell me why.
Madonna. I grew up in the ‘80s, so my very first concert was 1983, Like a Virgin Tour. It was the first time I saw a very powerful woman. I’ve been watching her career. She’s always in the face of what not to do and still does it anyway in survives and thrives.
She was very much a pioneer. She was maybe one of the first to shock the world. I’ve always enjoyed her music and I loved her books. Did you know that she has several books out there? Madonna is a great choice. What is she doing these days? Do you have any idea?
She is doing what she always does, which is producing music. The other thing that she’s very good at as an entrepreneur, people don’t realize, is prolific. There’re so many one-hit wonders in the music scene and there’re so many one-hit wonders in other artists at some stage. She’s never ending. She will probably continue to do music until she probably is in the coffin or something. It’s a huge lesson for entrepreneurs. A lot of entrepreneurs feel like they want to create something once and then just sit back and hang out in the Caribbean or something. She can, she could actually do that and be completely fine, financially at this point. Why does she continue it? Some people say it’s her ‘why’, it’s her reasoning. I don’t know if that is. She’s a smart business woman and she knows that through the proliferation of it, the consistency of pulling product and creating product, that’s how she stays relevant.
That’s a great choice. Only if I had the power to arrange a meeting for you and Madonna to hang out here.
Thank you. I will love that. Like a Virgin Tour and Sexy Boss would be awesome.
Here’s the grand finale question, the change the world question. What is it that you are doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world? If you aren’t doing something now that will change the world, what would you like to be doing that would change the world?
I’m on my mission. My why is to help women, no matter race, color or anything, just any woman around the world to be financially self-sufficient. It’s been proven that the number one underutilized resource on the planet is women. If women are empowered to create commerce, a.k.a. earn money, then they will make new and different decisions on their relationships and that will change the world.
That’s a great mission and one that I can stand side-by-side with you to help. Heather, it’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. There have been some great nuggets of gold that you brought to the table and shared with our audience. Thank you again, Heather. It was delightful chatting with you and I can’t wait for the next time that we get to speak.
Thank you so much.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Heather Havenwood
- The Ultimate Sales Machine
- The Invisible Organization: How Ingenious CEOs are Creating Thriving, Virtual Companies
- Sexy Boss
- Simon Sinek – YouTube link of her TED Talk
- Ron LeGrand
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