Dr. Len Schwartz started as a chiropractor and built one of the largest practices in the Philadelphia area. Now he’s a marketing expert for doctors, financial advisers, and other professional services. Plus he’s a serial entrepreneur and created companies like Market Domination Services, Pro-2-Pro Network, and Squeaky Clean Reputation. Now he generates hundreds of leads a day for his clients using his proprietary LinkedIn marketing system and strategies.
Len Schwartz Says Start With Your Thinking To Be Successful
Imagine utilizing the right lead generation in marketing systems that you can use to generate dozens of qualified leads and new clients every month. We’re going to be talking to a gentleman who has been in the lead generation and business growth automation business for several decades. Len Schwartz tells us all about how he went from being a former chiropractor to running his own incredible business with partners like Chet Holmes, Jay Levinson, Jay Abraham, Tony Robbins, E Myth’s Michael Gerber and lots of internationally known marketing and business builders. If you ever wanted to know about how to do this, we got the guy and his name is Dr. Len Schwartz. Len, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. It is absolutely an honor for me to be here.
We should probably tell listeners that you and I are friends and we’ve known each other for a long time. Do you think we should let them in on that?
It has years that we’ve known each other. I have so much respect for you. Everything I’ve said so far is true. It is absolutely an honor for me to be on this interview with you.
When we first got to know each other, it was through our dear departed friend Chet Holmes. I marveled at the amazing business that you had built. I loved how you had narrowed in on chiropractors and made an incredible business out of that. What I like to do on these interviews is I’d like to go back with a person to when they got into business and how they got their mindset into it and what they did. Tell me about some of your beginning experience.
I was a practicing chiropractor. I started in 1993. One of the biggest, if not the biggest, practices in the Philadelphia area. What happened was a decent percentage of my practice were other doctors and professionals. Dentists, medical doctors, financial advisers, insurance agents, and attorneys. Everybody kept asking me, “How are you doing this?” It was a phone conversation with Chet Holmes and Jay Abraham when Chet told me, “I’ve never met another doctor or professional that has your marketing copywriting and advertising skills.” Up until that moment during that conversation, I thought everybody knew how to do what I knew how to do. It turns out I was wrong. In 1999, I decided to start a marketing company to help other doctors and professionals, not just chiropractors, put systems in place that would help them automate the growth of their practice. That’s how it all started, and that’s how I transitioned out of practice into owning marketing companies.
Systems have come a long way back from years ago to today, don’t you think?
Times and technology has certainly changed. That’s probably one of my keys to success. Being able to adapt to different circumstances, situations, and advances in technology, that is absolutely key to success, at least it has been for me, so I highly recommend it to everybody.
You are able to pivot when you reached the moment in time when you thought it was time to move away from being what you were trained to do to something that probably excited you a lot more. How many chiropractic sessions before you made that decision?
Tens of thousands of adjustments in about ten to eleven years in practice. It sounds maybe a little too idealistic, but one of the reasons why I started the marketing company was because I saw a need to be able to help other people help more people. I realized when I was in practice that I could only help so many people per week or per month or per year, but if I were to help a hundred other chiropractors, a hundred financial advisers or a hundred other dentists, I knew I could indirectly help tens of thousands more people. That was one of my motivating factors for starting a marketing company as well.
Take us back to when you started the marketing company. You were trained as a chiropractor, and now you’re trying to apply the skills you learned on your own to market your own practice. How did you figure out how to get clients in the very beginning?
I saw the value of building an email list, an email database, in the late ‘90s, early 2000s, at a time when most people hadn’t caught on yet. They didn’t see why building an email list would help them, at least in the long run. That’s what I started doing. I started acquiring. I would go around, I would speak at seminars and events, and I would acquire email addresses in exchange for something of value in order for me to be able to follow-up with them. After that, I continued to get information, helpful hints, tips, and marketing strategies because I knew the most important part of all of that was to get people to know, like, and trust me. I was a new guy on the block; no one knew why they should believe me or why they should trust me. That was the plan, to be able to give myself an opportunity to be able to connect with people, communicate with people on a weekly basis.
You went around, and you spoke, you got on stage, you probably got in front of small, and some hopefully large groups, of people and shared what you were doing and those who were interested took advantage of getting to know you too, which is good advice no matter when you start. It’s part of what every entrepreneur is probably doing as well. What did you do differently that others didn’t?
The strategy wasn’t to try to sell them with every email that I sent or even sell them directly from the stage. If I continue to add value, if I continue to help them implement certain strategies or systems or ideas and they saw some positive results as a result of me sharing some valuable or benefit-rich information with them, my hope was that they would start to know, like, and trust me and then want to go bigger or want more and then reach out to find out how they can dive deeper with me and then buy some more complete systems and programs.
You’ve gotten to the point where they got to know who you were, and you caught their attention. You generated interest in what you were doing. What was the first thing you sold them?
For doctors, I created patient reactivation and referral program. Those were the first two programs that I sold doctors. As much as I interacted with doctors, I found that 90% of the docs that I was talking to did not have a consistent patient education and referral system in place. Those are the first two programs that I believe I sold.
Did you offer them independently or did one lead into the other?
I offered them independently, and one surely did, in some way, complement the other. The patient education referral system would generate leads and new patients on a daily or weekly basis. The reactivation program was a totally different effort that would go after patients that were missing in action and hadn’t been in the office for a while. Two totally different efforts, but yet they could easily be implemented simultaneously on a weekly basis to generate results.
It sounds like that was successful, but what did you do wrong? What happened that you wish didn’t happen in that first year.
I had some exposure. I had some email addresses, I placed some ads. I’ll go back to the initial challenge of getting people to know, like, and trust me. Trying to build the business one email at a time, while it was somewhat effective, the real lesson came later for me in understanding the value of being able to partner with someone who already was established and who had access to hundreds or thousands of names, thousands of other people that I could sell to. That strategy helped to catapult my success in a much bigger way. I started to realize that if I could get one person to send an email blast out to 5,000 other people who already knew, like, and trusted him and would acknowledge his recommendation of my programs, that’s going to be much more successful for me than continuing to try to build this business one email at a time.
Who is that person if you don’t mind me asking?
This was when I was strictly working with doctors and not just other professionals as well, but in the chiropractic profession. His name was Dr. Bob Hoffman. I’ll never forget him because he gave me my first shot at an affiliate relationship with somebody. Great guy, well-established, so I’ll never forget Bob.
It sounds like it was a turning point for you.
It was because I had a different perspective. All of a sudden, I had a different strategy that I could use on a regular basis where I could go out and work with other people who could promote me and promote my programs because they didn’t compete with theirs, in a way that helped me elevate my status in that given profession.
How much did you pay someone as an affiliate fee or as a recommender fee?
It was in 1999 to 2000.It was a long time ago, but it was probably 20%.
This is something that every one of us should be doing. This is the challenge I’m going to put out there for the audience. Think about who you can partner with, how you could find somebody who could prop up your leadership and authority in the eyes of their list and share some of the benefits of that with them for doing so. What would you say to somebody who says, “This is a great idea, but I don’t know what to do next.” What would you say?
There’s a logical sequence of steps. The first is to reach out to someone who you know does not offer or sell a product or service or program that’s similar to yours. This way, you don’t have to worry about the competition. Let’s assume that you believe that you’re competing with people. If you reach out to somebody who has already established themselves in a specific profession and doesn’t compete with you in terms of what they sell or offer and they’re interested in being able to make money by promoting your product or service that they also must believe in, those are the people that you want to reach out to. Find who they are, see who you resonate with, see who you have a good conversation with, but make the call. Send the email to see if you can at least set up a conversation to start talking about the possibility of working together. If you call ten people and you get three or four, that’s a huge win.
If you call twenty people and you get one person to say ‘yes’, that’s a huge win too, particularly when you’re first starting out. It sounds like your first year was the same first year that many of us have where we’re trying different things, we’re experimenting with what works out in the marketplace. Did you hit your first thousand client experience right then and there in your first year?
No, I’m a slow learner. It took me it took me a number of years to figure out all of the other lessons that seemed to only come with time as far as what I was doing wrong. The other thing I can comment on about what I was doing wrong was I was trying to do it all myself. One of the other lessons that I willingly share because I lived it. Diluting your focus, diluting your efforts, trying to keep all the plates spinning, doing it all yourself either because you’re a control freak or you don’t have the money, is not a recipe for success. I had to learn that after several years, and it wasn’t until I partnered with Chet Holmes back in 2004 that I learned about systems in a much deeper way. I learned about the value of focus. That’s when everything really started to change. It was in 2004 when I became aware of what I was doing right and all the things I was doing wrong, so no. I didn’t hit my first thousand until a couple of years after that, but that’s one of the other lessons for that I learned.
You’re not alone. I hear a very consistent message. The message is that, “If you’re successful quickly and it comes very easily, then you never develop the experience you need when things go bad, or alternative strategies to understand how to approach a problem when what you used to do is working fine. You went down the path of many of the successful people that I know of. You worked hard, you tried a lot of different things, it took some years to get it right. You not only got it right, but you also knew what didn’t work for you. That’s the best path in many ways.
We talked about the value of systems. The way my mind works is I like things to work in a predictably successful way. If they fail, I’d like them to fail in a predictably successful way, so I know what not to do. Having those four or five years of lessons learned doing things the wrong way, I get my perspective. Although it was hard while it was happening, I never fail. I either win or I learned. To your point, I definitely learned along the way, what to do and what not to do.
Your system kicked in at the point where you had figured out how to bring clients in, in a more regular basis. I would assume your systems made things easier to do the job that you had arrived at figuring out.
Whether it was lead generation systems, email marketing systems, implementation systems, all of it started to fall into those buckets or those categories where I knew what to do that would work, and I also knew what not to do. After we realized what we were doing wrong and stopped, we try to implement only those things that work.
What are the categories of systems that you finally arrived that that made all of the difference to your business?
There are quite a few. but what’s coming to my mind is my email marketing system. There was a time when I would think of sending an email, and my mind would go to this weird place where it would speak to me and say, “I don’t know if they want to receive another email from you,” or, “Why do they want to receive another email from you? You just sent one last week.” I had to fight that, and I changed my focus.
As long as I provide some value, it’s going to be hard for people to get angry with me. If you try to help someone, provide some benefit-rich strategy idea, perspective, or technique. If I sent two emails or three emails a week, which I wasn’t at the time, it’s going to be hard for them to get angry with me versus endearing them to me because of my e-mail. Instead of thinking of it like, “I’m bothering someone. Why would they want to receive it? Who am I?” all of that confidence in what I was sending took over, knew I was sending that information of value, and then my email started to kick in. It’s an example of my focus and my intention with my email marketing, and that turned into a huge lead generation source for me.
We’re all going to want to use email marketing. Many of us already do. I noticed that email marketing is becoming so ubiquitous and almost ineffective in certain ways. I can receive over 200 emails a day, and that’s not even my business mail. What do you think about all these emails being sent? Is that still your number one go-to strategy?
I think you can be right. We all get hundreds or dozens of emails every day. If you’re like me, there’s a lot of deleting going on. Email marketing is absolutely still my weekly marketing strategy. I probably send two to three emails a week to my list. My focus is still the same, how can I provide insight or value? Those that want to be a part of it will stay onboard, and those that don’t will weave themselves out and that’s perfect. That’s perfectly okay to me because I only want to talk to people who want to learn from me and who want to potentially work with me or benefit for me. Email marketing for me is still as effective as it ever was.
I want to dig deeper into your systems. What else besides email marketing do you do?
I am a LinkedIn expert. My group on LinkedIn has close to 86,000 people. I use and leverage LinkedIn in a way that helps me generate anywhere between ten and twenty leads every single day. These are people that are raising their hand, reaching out to me, and asking me to learn more about how I might be able to help them with their business. Marketing and LinkedIn are two big lead generation marketing systems for me.
It sounds like LinkedIn has dominated the marketing scene. You have this huge group and you had the insight to start that group many years ago. If someone’s getting involved now, what would you say to people when it comes to marketing on LinkedIn? Where do we start?
Is LinkedIn as effective as I say? I can’t tell you how many people are out there telling other people that LinkedIn is dead. You can’t generate leads on LinkedIn, you can’t use LinkedIn to grow. I’m not entirely sure what their motivation is, but I wholeheartedly disagree with all those people that are saying LinkedIn is dead or you can’t use LinkedIn to generate leads.
The biggest mistake that I see people make on LinkedIn is becoming first connections with other colleague/competitors. If you think of LinkedIn like it’s a big bucket, and you continuously consistently fill your bucket with people that look like they’re a match for your ideal client or your ideal patient, then you can use LinkedIn to communicate with those people on a regular consistent basis in order to get them to know, like, and trust you, in order to become a lead, then in order to become a client. The first big mistake is you don’t pour competitors or colleagues or anyone into your bucket that you know will never become a patient or client. That’s a huge mistake.
What’s the opposite? On a daily basis, you should be proactively adding people as first connections on LinkedIn that do look like they’re a match for your ideal patient or your ideal client. I work with thousands of financial advisors, and most financial advisors want to connect with mid to high net worth business owners, CEO’s, or other C-suite executives; maybe other doctors and professionals. Those are the people that, if you are an advisor, you want to add to your bucket every day in order to establish that rapport, that connection, get them to know, like and trust you in order to reach out to learn more about how you can help them.
What about somebody who’s been on LinkedIn for a long time and may even have thousands of connections that are completely unrelated to the type of client that they’re looking for? They might even have some competitors on their list now. What would you advise them? Deleting them? Would you trim your network of those people?
That’s the first thing I do with the client. If they are not going to become your new client, why have them on LinkedIn? Why put efforts in place that are meant to help you nurture and build a relationship with these first connections if you know you’re not going to require whatever person as a new client? They don’t deserve to be in your bucket, so get rid of them.
I get rid of the old folks from my last business, and you add the people who you think would be great prospects. You do things like start a group and start communicating to your first connections. Would you do that with mail or do you do that by posting articles and content on LinkedIn?
You want to post articles on LinkedIn that would serve or benefit the group of people that you’re looking to communicate with, i.e. Your prospective clients. You can do daily post or daily updates. They don’t necessarily have to be all under the umbrella of the services you provide. They could be inspirational or motivational posts to be able to have an array of different bits and pieces of information that give people a chance to get to know you. I call it warm and fuzzy marketing. Put an inspirational post out there to give people a chance to see a different side of you. It’s getting people to know, like, and trust you. Posting articles, daily updates, you can even email your first connections. LinkedIn provides you with an opportunity to export the list the first connections. You can acquire all of those email addresses and email those people on a regular basis. There’s several different ways to use LinkedIn, but that’s a good place to start.
Let’s talk about something I know you are an expert at and know a lot about, and that’s mindset. Help our audience understand the type of mindset that you need to persevere in business and to get past where they are today?
Your beliefs are the foundation for your thoughts. Your thoughts produce your actions. Your actions produce the results. I made a conscious attempt to “listen or acknowledge” my thoughts. If you met me fifteen years ago, I would tell you I’m not the most optimistic person you’ve ever met. My thoughts were, “This isn’t going to work. This isn’t going to happen. I’m not going to get this. I’m not going to grow that. I’m not going to make x amount of dollars.” It wasn’t until I paid close attention to my thoughts, which are a reflection of my beliefs, I had to work very hard on changing my limiting beliefs, which change my thoughts, which change the action that I put in place in order to generate the results that I wanted. I always ask every new client, ”Pay very close attention to your thoughts. Are you expecting things to work or are the words in your mind, the words in your head are saying, “There is no way this is going to work.” There is my own personal experience with understanding mindset and beliefs and thoughts and actions.
I’ve heard other people say similar things, but I like your way of phrasing it better than I’ve heard. I’ve heard people say that, “It’s your emotions that drive your thoughts.”I don’t like that because emotions are like clouds in the sky; they come and go. It’s your beliefs that truly are the foundation of who you become. Let’s say I don’t have great beliefs, how do I change them?
The first step is to acknowledge what you were thinking and what you were saying to yourself, and then understand the beliefs that had generated those thoughts. Once you are consciously aware of those beliefs, then it becomes a process. I want to share the exercise that I do. It may sound crazy simplistic or I hope it’s helpful, but here’s what I would do. I would take a sheet of paper, and I would draw a line down the middle of a paper. On the left hand side, I would write down the thoughts that I was having and the beliefs that I must have, or at least I thought I have, that generated those thoughts. On the opposite side of the line, I would write my desired thought, what I wish I was thinking on a subconscious level or conscious level, and then the belief I would have to have in order to produce that thought.
For me, once I would write those thoughts, those beliefs on left side and the way to fix it on the right side, that allowed me to become a lot more present with what I should be thinking or saying to myself. I’m not talking necessarily about affirmations because I don’t know if affirmations will change their beliefs. If you say it enough times, it could possibly work for some people. It didn’t work for me, but that was part of it. Starting to think a different way, acknowledge the way I was thinking, and take whatever action was required to try to even reverse engineer my thoughts. It took me years to be able to start to change and reverse all of my limiting beliefs to generate the business, the income, the personal life, and the professional life that I wanted.
Thank you for sharing and I hope that everybody takes the time and takes out a sheet of paper and does this exercise. It is a gift, and it comes from years of working to figure this out by an incredible individual, so don’t skip this. Do it. What are you currently excited about?
I’m all about leverage. As I get older, I’m all about working smarter. What I’m into is helping my clients utilize or use leverage in a way that helps them get the success they want, the income they want, and the lifestyle they want. I’m very passionate about being able to help my clients work smarter to be able to generate more of what they want in less time.
How do you do that?
For example, I have a LinkedIn done for you. I mentioned that only now because it’s one of the ways that I can help my clients generate the leads and the new clients they want, specifically financial advisers, in a way that they’ve never done before. We talked about whether people think LinkedIn is a viable way or a platform to be able to generate leads, exposure, and clients. When you have a system in place that provide clients or provide people with that leverage, then ultimately you can either know how to do it yourself or you can flip the switch and have somebody do it for you so that you could do what you do best. In this example, it’s serving your clients at the highest level.
Would just be only available to financial advisers?
Not necessarily, no. Everybody under the financial services umbrella for sure, attorneys, certain doctors, and recruiters. There are lots of different professionals that are on LinkedIn that are either looking to recruit people to hire them or are looking to acquire new clients or both. People can use LinkedIn for all of it. It’s about understanding how to leverage the platform in order to be able to get what you want.
Is it okay with you if I list on your page exactly how people can get a hold of you?
Put that LinkedIn with all the information.
This is one of one of my favorite questions to ask because I think it leads us to understand the character of the individual we’re talking to. Who, in all of space and time, would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch, or possibly an intense conversation with?
Abraham Lincoln. He failed so many times. I’m certain you’ve seen that the chronological events that took place in his life, and all of the failure he experienced. How does a guy continue on? Talk about changing beliefs and your thoughts. It’s hard to comprehend that failure after failure, you will continue to push. He’s somebody that I admire greatly, so he’s somebody that I’ll love to sit down with for an hour.
You’re the first person to ever say him, and I love the reason why too, because you’re right. It’s a great way to understand how someone who has continuously evolved through failure became one of the most important people in the course of our entire country. What is it that you’re doing or you’d like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?
When you ask about changing the world, I look at changing one person’s life at a time. Change one individual’s life or life experience in order to perpetuate greater change in his or her world and you grow from there. It’s a combination. I do have a passion for putting business-building growth-oriented marketing systems in place. When you have systems that work, you tend to fall in love with those systems. On the opposite side, we talked about mindset. Through my own experiences and what I’ve learned, I’m also equally as passionate about breaking through that person’s mind. Not only are we able to help their business or their level of success in business or their income, but also change their mind, their beliefs, their thoughts, their perspective, in order to improve their entire life experience for themselves, their spouse, their kids, and their family. That, for me, is the way I’m going about trying to change the world.
That is called being a conduit for success. The people like you enable others so that they can bring their gift into the world and share with the rest of us. You’ve been an amazing guest and a dear friend. I’m so happy to have you on my show.
Thank you so much.