Have you ever wondered if there was a way to make your daily email tasks easier? Andrea Loubier, the CEO of Mailbird, is recognized as one of the thought leaders and top female entrepreneurs in South East Asia. Mailbird is a desktop email client for Windows. In this episode, Mitch Russo interviews Andrea about the struggles of being in the corporate world and how email has been both good and bad for productivity. Andrea talks about how emails are made easy with Mailbird and the mission to create a technological solution to create proper work-life balance and focus on things that actually matter in life. Don’t miss today’s show to learn more about Mailbird and discover Andrea’s advice for first-time entrepreneurs.

MailBird: Email Made Easy With Andrea Loubier

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Onto my guest and her incredible story. She started her journey working for a market research firm for six years. Even though she was promoted every year, there was an entrepreneurial tug that kept calling her to a higher purpose. With a short stint at a software company, she realized her time had come to break away from the man and start her first business with her two partners. The problem was not the business, it was email. They were plagued by constant email management problems, as we all are, and we all have been dealing with for many years.

A vision, what would the world be like if work-life balance and the possibilities of doing something that helps others manage the overflow of information flooding into their notifications, inboxes, regularly could be solved? The spark that ignited a revolution put boring Ohio with cows and slow family life environment was not going to get her to the digital industry explosion. Her first crowdfunding failed and then launched from China and that failed. The rocket fuel ignited and growing by 30% year over year to over two million accounts, but it was time to change the scenery once again to Bali where the story continues to unfold. Welcome, Andrea Loubier, to the show.

Thanks for having me.

My pleasure, Andrea, and delighted to have you. You have such a great story and congratulations on all of your success.

Thank you. I appreciate it. It’s nice to hear that every now and again.

You’re in the trenches every day. You’re fighting one battle after another. It’s nice to look down the mountain and see how far you’ve come instead of constantly looking up and seeing how much far you got to go. Isn’t that right?


Timing is everything. Click To Tweet

Tell us a little bit about how this all got started for you and where the inflection points were.

I would say that I have, at the time, a fortunate upbringing in the sense that this concept of a third culture kid you keep hearing coming up. It usually means you come from one parent from one culture or country, another parent from another culture or country and then you grow up in a third culture and country. I was born to my American father and my Filipino mother. I was born in France and I did not live in the US until 1999. I’m a full American citizen, American passport, all of this good stuff.

I started the first four years of my life in Nairobi, Kenya and after that in Bangkok, Thailand. After that in Jakarta, Indonesia where I spent a good majority of my life. When I first moved to the US, it was in 1999 and I moved to Cincinnati, Ohio of all places. I was excited to move to the US. I had some friends and family in the US. I didn’t think I was going to be moving to a place like Ohio. Going from this hustling busy city in Jakarta, Indonesia to this slow-paced lifestyle where there’s lots of farm land and cows.

I remember driving in the car when we were looking for houses and I was like, “There’s cows there. That’s interesting.” It was such a screeching halt to go from this bustling, busy, lively, Southeast Asian city to this slow-paced life. When I first went to public school there, everyone was like, “Did you come from China?” I was like, “No. I’m American. I lived in Indonesia.” They’re like, “Did you have running water there?” I’m like, “It was a lot more developed than it is here.”

I finished high school and university in Ohio. My first professional career outside of college was working with a market research firm. At this firm, it was an amazing experience. I got to grow a lot. I learned a lot professionally and I had many opportunities each year to get promoted, which I did. It was exciting in those six years. After a while, it was a smaller company and I started noticing that there were some pain points with general culture within the company. One of the biggest struggles at this stage when you first enter your first job was email management, getting completely overwhelmed and overloaded with email management. If you don’t know how to properly manage it, it can ruin a whole day of productivity.

At some point I was already managing large clients at this point in time at this market research firm. I decided it was time to make a change. This was started when I had a conversation with a friend of mine whose father and brother had started classic Silicon Valley tech story. They started a company out of their garage in Ohio, of all places. Not exactly known as this tech industry or bubble or anything like that but let alone the fact that it’s in Ohio. They started this fast-growing software company. There was an opportunity where they were hiring and I decided to join them and it was exciting for me.

Within that pivotal year of taking decisions into my own hand and saying, “I’m leaving this market research firm and I’m going to start work with this software company,” I saw many different positive changes in the general working culture and how fast they were growing and their attention to the people that they were bringing on board. That got the pendulum swinging and from there, I was like, “I want to start my own business. This is amazing. What if I can create a business culture myself that I love and that I can give back to people who want to live this life where they’re not bogged down 9 to 5 or more working but yet they can focus on work-life balance and their health and their families and stuff like this?”

Andrea, how old were you when you took that chance?

I was 26. The next step is that I quit that job and they were like, “If this doesn’t work out for whatever reason, you are more than welcome to come back.” I was thrilled. It was amazing. Job security is still there if the first venture into starting your own company were to completely fail. I packed up my bags and I left Ohio after thirteen years of living there. I moved to this island in the archipelago of Indonesia. I lived in Jakarta for nine years. Despite it not being a bustling city, I still went back to Indonesia but instead chose to live on this island. It sounds romantic and ideal, you’re moving to this island, having island life and starting a tech software company.

FTC 186 | Email Made Easy
Email Made Easy: Email is an amazing and innovative advancement in terms of business communication. At the same time, we use it to our demise because it also counters productivity at some level.


This move to Bali started because I was introduced to my two partners in starting MailBird. They’re two brilliant Danish guys. They worked together in the past, have also built their own companies and exited. I was introduced to them through a mutual friend who had also started an online business and was working from Bali. There were a lot of conversations and inspirational discussions that happened that decided to have me pack everything up, quit my job and start my own company. I came to Bali and I officially met my co-founders for the first time in real life, in life and blood. We started hacking away and figuring out how to build this business that solves the many problems with email.

Who would have the guts to pick up at 26 years old and move to an island alone, never having met the people who you’d be starting a company with? Nobody. It’s amazing. Andrea, you are incredible and that is quite a story. What I like most about your story is the fact that you are on a quest. There was something going on that was not satisfying about your life and you were not going to stop until you discovered what it was and you fulfilled it. That’s what the entrepreneurial vision is all about. That is the part that I know many of us have in common.

In many cases, we won’t stop until we succeed, until we find the thing that truly ignites our passion and takes us to that next level. That’s what you did. We’re always searching for that next thing, I believe. Whether it’s in the confines of your own business or as a person who is always looking for a side hustle, there’s always an eye opened for the next great thing. What is the next great thing for you, Andrea, inside of the MailBird structure?

We started this email company in 2012. Back then, it was a scrappy version at this point in time where I was like, “I don’t even know how we’re going to bring this to market.” I had some interesting hackathons with my partners in the company. From 2012, I believe timing was everything for us up until where we are. There’s more stuff emerging as the world continues to progress with technology. One of the things that I see happening is, everyone has this issue with email and everyone has their different qualms with it. What is not being addressed in a lot of technology companies is what the actual impact is over engagement and over stimuli and demand and grasp of your attention with notifications with technology.

We are in that business, email. It’s something that is an amazing innovative advancement for us in terms of business communication. At the same time, we use it to our demise. It also counters productivity at some level because half of the time it’s not managed well. This is something that we’re interested in exploring more and more with MailBird, is how we continue to provide this effective communication tool for the growing workforce as well that works online. How do we make it so that it doesn’t induce stress, becomes simple and easy to manage and that you can spend your time more effectively on things that matter and less time with email?

The thing that is interesting here is that the perceived value of any online business is usually based on engagement and time usage. In this case, I’m liking to challenge this idea around the concept of building a healthy relationship with email for businesses in particular that challenges that and says, “There is more value in a technology solution that limits the amount of time you spend with it so that you can focus on things, reconnect with yourself and work on things that actually matter in your life.” That’s the next big thing.

That’s going to be the challenge because you’re in a place now. Readers, to make sure that you understand, what Andrea has built is a company called MailBird. What MailBird is, it’s a Windows mail system, mail client and communication system that seems to, from the way you describe it, live most happily in the corporate environment. To be clear, there’s no mobile version. It’s desktop software for corporations. That’s what it sounds like. Is that the right description?

That’s pretty much what we do. MailBird is exactly that. It’s an email client-based for PC and Windows. It’s always been consumer based from the beginning. I can even talk a little bit about the timing of that. For us, we’re focusing more on serving businesses and teams.

That’s the big space. That’s where everybody wants to live. What you’ve done is you have found a way to accomplish something that on the entrepreneurial world is pretty special and that’s build a base of two million subscribers or two million downloads or users. I assume that there’s a certain number of those that are free, but more and more as you get deeper and deeper into the corporate environment, those will convert into paid accounts. I know that’s happening. What readers would enjoy learning about is, how you do that?

Everyone has this issue with email, and everyone has their different qualms with that. Click To Tweet

That has been an interesting journey for us. I’ll start from the beginning where at the time when you look at the email market and you look at the Windows and PC operating systems, which still holds the majority of the operating system usage across the globe. That was the market that was the largest for us to tap into and the most underserved market. At that time when we launched MailBird on April 2nd of 2012, we almost launched it on April 1st which was April Fool’s Day. It’s a bad idea so we’re like, “Let’s move it into a day later.”

When we launched, we were fully focused on consumers. We used a freemium-based model. We have pivoted in a sense that we still serve individual consumers, but we’ve gotten rid of the freemium-based model and we are reaching out mostly to small teams or businesses or small to medium enterprises. This move has been an interesting one for us in the sense that we’ve learned quite a lot and how that looks tapping into the B2B market segments with email software. That’s the journey.

From the beginning when we focused on consumers on a freemium-based model, that’s how you build your initial traction. That’s how you build up the interest. We got a lot of publicity around MailBird. At the time that we launched, there was another email company that was for Mac specifically. MailBird is only for Windows to the state, but that will change. On Mac, there was an alternative email client that was call Sparrow. Sparrow was wonderful. It was simple, clean and a native software application that you downloaded and it helped you manage multiple Gmail accounts with a native experience that was stronger, more powerful, cleaner.

A lot of people were not enjoying the user experience for Gmail at this time. Right before we launched, Google had acquired Sparrow. This became even more lucrative for us when we started entering that business of email and looking specifically at the PC, Windows market. All the things that have happened and you can imagine when you’ve been running for close to a decade, you go through a lot of different experiments on how to bring the product to market, tapping into different niches and market segments. Some of the stuff that we did to get to that two million accounts that’s even more than that today, that are managed from MailBird is a mix of marketing initiatives. A lot of online marketing initiatives which include SEO, content marketing, email marketing, all of this good stuff that you hear a lot with any digital marketing communities online.

On top of that, we hired some excellent people to join the team. MailBird is a fully distributed remote team. This is another new market trend that we’re seeing emerge in how the future of work looks. When we brought MailBird to two million, it was because of the right people that we brought on board and a lot of strategic marketing initiatives, some of which that went well and some of which that didn’t. You have to test to know what works. A lot of our growth comes via word of mouth and digitally. That usually comes via the package of SEO. Let’s say if you were to google best email client for Windows or PC, MailBird would come up there on the first page. A lot of how people are discovering us is through SEO, a lot of back linking and content marketing as well.

One of the things that I’ve noticed over the years is that what it comes down to is reputation and buzz. The more buzz you get, the more words out there written about you. The more people are talking about you, the more people want to buy your products. You talked about a native client and I want to make sure that readers understand that. Describe what that is.

There are two types of ways that you can manage email, one comes in the package of web mail. This is all your Hotmails or Gmails, any web-based email management tool. It’s a web-based email client. That’s one experience. The native software application experience is actual software that you download to your computer and the benefit of that comes with speed. It comes with customization options that you wouldn’t otherwise have on web-based solutions. On top of that, you can also manage multiple email accounts from multiple email providers, all in one unified experience. That is the true benefit of having a native software application to manage email. That’s a little bit of a difference. You have more flexibility and more management, more control.

I wanted to make sure it was defined. Many people already use apps to manage their email on their desktop, but I wanted to make sure that term was completely defined. Readers, we are talking to the amazing Andrea Loubier and she is the President and CEO of MailBird. MailBird is a Windows PC mail client and apparently incredible in many ways. Andrea, what do you think is the most important thing if someone is starting a company can do to make sure that they’re successful?

I would say is to start talking about your business and hashing it out. A lot of times, it’s the classic first time entrepreneur story. I was lucky enough to have some advice to say, “Don’t do that early on.” If you’re starting a company, it always sounds incredible and amazing in your head until you start talking to other people about it and then getting a real human feedback about it, particularly for the segment that you are trying to address. That would be my first thing is to take the time to do your research, to talk to people and get some feedback so that it’s not everything in your own head. A lot of entrepreneurs are afraid to do that because they’re like, “Someone’s going to steal my idea.” That’s the world that you live in and if you’re going to be productive of it, then you do run the risk of launching a company that the market does not want at all and you wasted your time and money. That’s my biggest advice.

FTC 186 | Email Made Easy
Email Made Easy: There is more value in a technology solution that limits the amount of time you spend with it so that you can focus on other things, reconnect with yourself, and work on things that actually matter in your life.


The one thing I would say in retrospect of some of my own mistakes, there was a company called Lotus Development Corporation many years ago. They were probably the first commercial spreadsheet to come out for the PC platform. When we were at the point of launching our own software company, I called and I said, “Can I please speak to the director of marketing?” I said, “You don’t know me. We’re in the middle of a tiny little startup here. I’d love to take you to lunch and get your thoughts on how to build a software company.” The guy said, “Sure, I’m happy to help.” I finally meet him and we go to lunch. He was the most negative person I had ever spoken to. He tried to discourage me in seven different ways to not do exactly what we were planning to do.

At the end of the day, I said, “I can’t trust this guy. I don’t believe him and more importantly, I am not going to follow his lead.” I thank God we didn’t because if I would’ve, we would have never launched. I want readers to be a little bit careful about what you described. To add to what you said is when you do talk to people, make sure it’s someone who doesn’t have any form of a conflict of interest and make sure that they’re not negative people in general. A negative person, even if they’re trying to help you, can sink your ship before you even launch. That would be my two cents adding to what you said.

That’s a good point.

The next thing we want to talk about is this whole idea of raising money and then maybe even positioning a company to be sold. You started talking about that earlier when you talked about Google acquiring someone else in your space. Did you raise money?

We did.

Talk about that process.

Two tiny little bridge rounds and that was to get us kick-started into growing the team during the early stages. Since then, it has always been the roadmap for me and my co-founders at MailBird, to build a company that’s going to grow successfully and to at some point then exit it. This has been the model that we’ve worked with since the beginning. It paved the way as well when we saw Sparrow’s acquisition by Google. Where we’re going with MailBird is, we’re at this point where we pass those critical stages and we’re looking at how do we go to that next step and that’s why we’re focusing on teams and businesses and how to better serve them. We’ve been already approached by a couple of potential buyers that are interested in buying out MailBird but we’re not at the point where we would like to do that yet. We’re planning to do that in the next 2 to 3 years.

This whole fundraising process was quite interesting for me. Being a female entrepreneur in Southeast Asia was not a common thing before. When I hit some of these venture capital conferences and tech conferences, most of the time I was the only female founder of the tech companies that were there, that was represented. In this experience, a couple of interesting things happened. When I was talking to VCs, to venture capital guys out in Singapore and in Jakarta, some of the bigger metropolitan areas where they bullseye the money is in Southeast Asia.

I had a couple of different experiences. One was, “You’re the CEO of MailBird?” I’m like, “Yes, I am.” This would not be the case had I been maybe in the US. In the US, it’s a lot more progressive there. This is the environment and culture that you’re working in Southeast Asia sometimes as a woman. I would have to say though, it has changed dramatically since then which I’m happy to see. More and more women are stepping out. More stories are coming out about women stepping up into these roles.

The perceived value of any online business is usually based on engagement and time usage. Click To Tweet

The second thing that I experienced in that fundraising process was there was also a lot more interest in, “What can this woman do for tech?” It’s easy to get offended by that. At the same time though, it was great because it put more women on the map. It put more recognition for women that are leading great companies on the map in Southeast Asia for venture capital. Since then, more and more VC firms as well are starting to integrate more women into their teams. I’ve seen quite a dramatic change since then.

Fundraising in general though for anyone is never fun. It consumes quite a lot of time. We were lucky with our two rounds that we had raised and that we had built a good relationship with an investor. We weren’t even, at this point, looking for investment but he said, “I believe what you guys are doing. I would like to invest.” We’re like, “All right, that sounds good.” We started thinking, “What can we do with this money?” and so forth. I have to say that we’ve been lucky with our investor. He has been completely like, “I trust you guys. I’m hands off.” He’s been an entrepreneur himself. He knows how that processes of building a company and that got us to kick-start and bring us to where we are.

My perspective on fundraising, especially in this environment where hypergrowth is full focus for venture capital firms in all over the world, I’m more in support these days of trying to build a successful, steady and stable company without funding. Anytime someone comes to me and says, “Andrea, I’m starting my company right now I’m thinking about fundraising so I can do this and this.” I’m like, “That’s good. Do that. Remember that if you can build this thing without taking outside funding, that’s going to be a much more powerful and lucrative business to talk about after you overcome those initial stages of building that company.”

To point this out, it used to be many years ago and people know this, you could have got funding with a scratching on a napkin. If you had a great idea and could scratch it out on a napkin over lunch, you could possibly get a term sheet. Now, it’s much different. Everything you’re saying is exactly the way it should be. I’ll go one step further. I don’t invest much in companies anymore. I’ve invested in over twenty different companies after I sold my own software company.

One of the things I finally realized, it took a little while, was that I’m not going to be investing in companies where the founders need investment to fund their lives. Some of them were asking for six-figure salaries so that we would have the privilege of giving them money. My belief is that you got to find a way to bootstrap your company to cash and you have to find a way to start selling rapidly and showing progress before you ask for money. If you’re asking for money to pay yourself, then it’s going to be much harder to make that happen, unless you’re in Silicon Valley and this five VCs are chasing you at the same time.

As far as being in Indonesia, as far as being a woman and looking for funding as a female entrepreneur, that only increases the difficulty. If you want to ratchet up the difficulty, move to Indonesia. Even in Boston, getting funding in Boston compared to Silicon Valley is a much different process. It’s always changing but what you said is true, get to the point of where you’re generating cash where you can show some form of growth month-to-month and you will discover that people will come to you and want to invest. I agree with you completely on that. What other tips would you have for people in the space where they’re starting a company, getting it going but desperately need some form of money to either live their lives or get to the next level? What would you suggest?

I would recommend crowdfunding. Crowdfunding has been a great alternative option for people that need to raise money to kick-start a new business or venture. It doesn’t have to be in tech. It’s a great way. It also helps you to get into hyper marketing and bring the market mode but crowdfunding is a great solution. There are plenty of platforms out there, KickStarter is one of them. IndieGoGo is one of them. We did it twice even in the early stages of building the company, mostly to get into the groove of bringing the solution to market and to see if we could gather some feedback from it.

If you’re not looking to go to VCs, you tap into your first personal network if you have that opportunity. A lot of people will tap into reaching out to friends, family and so forth, which is why crowdfunding is a great solution for that. That’s one option to do it. Otherwise what I did for a while myself is I worked a full-time job. That was my stable income and I would work on building my little side project, which soon became MailBird. That’s quite burdening as you can imagine, if you’re working a full-time job and then building a company on the side as well. That’s another solution.

It is another solution and it’s a viable solution and it’s one that I recommend to entrepreneurs. I advise entrepreneurs and companies, and many times what they want to hear is different than what they do here for me. I tell them what you said. I say, “Stick with your day job until you have something viable. Make money before you decide to jump ship.” People don’t want to hear that. They want to hear, “That’s a great idea. Let’s see if we can get you some money, some funding.” It’s not going to work. I love that you said it because it’s what I advise as well. The other thing I want to talk about is when you talk about crowdfunding, crowdfunding went from something simple and straightforward to a highly produced, expensive proposition. You could still probably make a video with your iPhone in the backyard but if you look at some of these campaigns, they’re shot with $1 million commercials. What do you think about some of this stuff?

FTC 186 | Email Made Easy
Email Made Easy: Starting a company always sounds so incredible and amazing in your head until you start talking to other people and get real human feedback about it.


This is the exact same thing I thought, I’m like, “If we want to raise money from our network of friends and family, their networks and their networks, why don’t we do it old school?” These new platforms came out, they got a lot of attention and traction as well. They put in a few good projects that got well-funded and they set the bar quite high. That’s the funny thing about those is that it does also require some funds to be able to launch such a campaign. They say, “You can launch one from doing a quick video on your iPhone.” If you look at the ones that are getting funded, they did not do that for free. They definitely hired a media team or they had friends that were nice enough to do that for them to launch. That’s a little bit of a conundrum in itself. It’s not that it’s not possible, I would say.

Crowdfunding is an option. If you have something great and you decide to launch a kick-starter, even with an iPhone video, you’ll do it. It’s possible. To truly do it the way that some of these people who raise a fortune on KickStarter or on other crowdfunding platforms, it does require enough money to build those campaigns. We are at the point in our interview where we get to know a little bit more about you, Andrea. I’m going to ask you a question and this is my favorite question to ask because it helps people get to see the real you in some interesting way. Who in all of space and time would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch or an intense conversation with?

Bill Gates.

I knew it was going to be a software company founder. I’ll tell you my experience with Bill Gates, maybe it will change your mind and maybe it won’t. I met Bill Gates at an industry conference in Boston many years ago. I had approached Bill and we were chatting about Microsoft Word. I was telling him I thought it was slow and I felt it could be improved. He then went into a tirade about how he inspected every line of code in Microsoft Word and it is completely optimized and he wouldn’t have it any other way.

I then said to him a completely different question, “Bill, I got to ask you a question. Are you interested in the accounting software space? That’s my business and I want to know if it’s something that you think you’re going to be going into?” In that same type of a tirade, he said, “Absolutely not. We’d never go into the accounting space. There aren’t enough people who would pay enough money for us to make it worthwhile to be in the accounting space.” Within seven weeks they launched their first accounting software program. If he did, maybe he’d be different. He’s a lot more mellow these days. I’ll never forget the fact that he plain out fibbed to me about what he was planning to do. I’ll leave Bill Gates to you from that perspective.

For my perspective, the initial thought of, “Bill Gates, he’s this highly successful guy and he’s done many great things.” I’m more interested in talking to him partly because one of our largest competitors for MailBird is Outlook. On top of that, what he’s doing, he’s mellowed out quite a lot. He’s had all the success. He’s held himself together. He was asked, “What do you fear most?” He said, “My brain to stop working.” He is a brilliant guy. He knows what he’s doing and I like what he’s doing. He’s focusing a lot of his initiatives through all that success that he’s generated. Bringing a PC to every home by focusing on how he can solve world problems, that to me is fascinating because you see a lot of entrepreneurs that go down this ramp up of success. They don’t have that luxury of being able to do that. That’s a strong example of someone who does the right thing when they reach success.

For that reason, it is a good choice. If I can help get that set up for you, you’ll have to take me along on your conversation so I could remind Bill. Andrea, we’re at the grand finale, the change the world question. Are you ready?


What is it that you are doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?

There's an importance of balance in human connection and communication that comes with technology. Click To Tweet

I would say this spins off of what I’m doing already. It’s this question of like, “If you were in a different scenario in your life, what would you do different?” I would not be doing anything else different. What I believe that’s changing the world and what I’m doing is that I’m recognizing with the company at MailBird that there’s an importance of balance and human connection and communication that comes with technology. I am hoping that with MailBird and the business that we’re building and the solution we’re building, we can bring this innovation to people to ensure that they build the right habits and uses with email for their personal lives and for work as well.

I’d like to take these learnings that I’m gathering through this process of starting and building MailBird and to carry them into perhaps the health tech solutions as well. Everyone asks, “What do you want to do next?” I want to solve that problem of effective communication with technology. After that, I want to look into working with health tech solutions for type-1 diabetes. Everything from whether I’m working on email or directly with diabetes, healthcare and technology, it’s all about building a healthier life and a happier life. That’s the biggest takeaway.

That’s a good ambition to be on. You would be changing the world. There are over 35 emails that have come into my account. I need a way to get rid of this stuff. The world is in the same place. I know housewives getting 200 emails a day. Andrea, help us. Do something. Figure it out because we need to find a way to get out of email and find the most powerful people and communication systems that we could possibly have and eliminate all the junk that seems to find its way onto our screen. I appreciate you doing this and I would love to see you be a success. Before I let you go, we promised readers something free and we even gave them a hint as to what it is. Why don’t you describe what it is you’re offering our readers?

I’m excited to offer to any readers a coupon code that gives people MailBird absolutely 100% free for the first year by simply entering a coupon code upon checkout on the GetMailBird.com website. This is only for PC users and it’s only for desktop and laptop, keep that in mind. The coupon is MitchRussoXMailBird.

Thank you Andrea so much for being with me. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your experience, and your vision for the future which will change the world.

Thank you so much, Mitch.


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