Mitch Stephen has been a self-employed RE investor for 20+ years. His real estate investing career started at the age of 23 when he read “Nothing Down” by Robert Allen. Mitch, together with his wife, Tommi, and his daughter, Shannon purchased their fair share of local houses. Their company, Independence Day, Inc., has bought and sold over 1,500 properties in and about San Antonio, Tx since 1996. This company specializes in buying distressed properties with OPM and selling those properties with Owner Financing.

Mitch Stephen on Overcoming Hopelessness & Making a Fortune

How would you like it if I were able to show you and introduce you to a guy who has bought and sold over a thousand houses in his lifetime, and at the same time is involved in storage facilities and finance and all the cool stuff around real estate? I want to introduce you to Mitch Stephen. We’re very lucky to have him on the show. Mitch, a big welcome from Your First Thousand Clients.  

I’m excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

You’re such an industrious guy and you’ve built an amazing career. How did you start? How did this all come about?

Like most of the people that I talked to, I started out from the bottom. No silver spoon. My family was very supportive but didn’t have a lot. Whatever they had they offered to help, but it was bare minimum stuff. I got to a point where I recognized I had a glass ceiling. I didn’t go to college, my choice. I just didn’t fit there. It took me a couple semesters when I figured that out. I started out on an adventure to figure out where I belonged in the world. It took me quite a long time because I’m a slow learner. I have to learn by my mistakes. That’s the most expensive and the hardest way to get things figured out. I like to tell everyone I graduated from La Calle U. La Calle means the street, so I graduated from the street.

At one point I had a turning point in my life. I met with one of my mentors who was Cuban. He spent two and a half years in Castro’s hotel. He was captured in the Bay of Pigs, and he was held captive as a traitor to his country where they did not do nice things to him every day. I asked that man how did he survive and he told me something that I never forgot. He said the human body is the most adaptable thing in the world, and if you give it just enough water and just enough food, and if you can hold onto your mind, your body will figure out everything.

At that time, this is twenty years ago, I capped at about $15 an hour. I was doing a tremendous job for people. I’m very responsible. I show up. I never missed days. I don’t steal, every penny is in place always. I’ve been that way since the day I was born. I don’t know any other way. That sentence started to haunt me, that the human body is the most adaptable thing in the world. I certainly wasn’t worried about getting water, in this great city where I live, San Antonio, Texas. I was certainly not worried about getting enough food, and so the only thing I had to control in his scenario was my mind. I had to keep control of my mind. I had been contemplating for a long time the possibility of quitting and not having a job and going on my own, but I really didn’t know what I was going to do. That was my big problem. I didn’t know what to do or how I would do it. I knew I would be inexperienced whatever I picked because I’d never done it before. I decided to take Mr. Bolito up on his on his word, that if I had enough food and water that my mind would figure it out.

I took having a job off the table. I could no longer have a job. I did it in the snap of a finger one day. I no longer have a job, I will not have a job, and I won’t take a job. That was what I had to control my mind over. He was having to control his mind over torture and wondering if he was going to get out alive, and if they were going to give him enough food and water the next day, among people urinating on him and defecating on him and beating him every day. All I had to do was control my mind enough where I would not let myself go back to have a job. I firmly believed that my body would have to figure it out and that it would, and it did.

You were very lucky to have shared the time with that gentleman and to have him impart that wisdom to you. We don’t know each other very well yet, but it sounds to me like it might have been one of the greatest moments in your life.

It was definitely one of those. There are a lot of turning points in a person’s life. A lot of times they’ll stand out, and that’s one of the turning points that stands out. On my first days without a job, I didn’t do too well. Maybe I made $25 for the entire day, but then I learned how to change $25 for the day to $100 a day. The cool thing about that was because I was on my own, I was a 100% recipient of the increase, and I kept one-upping myself. I kept one-upping the game or whatever I was trying to do. Every time I did, I was the 100% recipient. I’ve been making money for other companies and I’d figure out how to make their companies more money, and they give me $100 bonus at the end of the month when I just figured out how to change their bottom line by $500,000 or by $1million, and I was not getting any of it. When I went on my own, I was 100% recipient, and this really started to intrigue me. I finally learned to start learning from other people. Even though I wasn’t in a formal education setting, I could still learn. It took me a little while to figure out that I had stopped learning and that I had to get back in and start learning. Now I could learn what I wanted to at a pace that I wanted to learn, be that fast or slow, and I could absorb things that I was passionate about and that I felt I would be good at and discover myself.

If we can be patient with ourselves and we could just be open to the opportunities around us, then these things happen. I want to share something else with you, Mitch. There’s another point of commonality between us that I hadn’t realized until a moment ago. It turns out that both of us read the exact same book that started us on real estate investing.

YFTC 015 | Overcoming Hopelessness
Overcoming Hopelessness: Nothing Down for the 2000s: Dynamic New Wealth Strategies in Real Estate

Nothing Down by Robert Allen, I’m guessing, is what you’re talking about. That was very interesting because Robert Allen had the audacity to suggest to me or his readers that you could go out there and be successful with nothing. If nothing could get it done, I had enough nothing to buy the whole town. I had nothing but nothing. He got me in that position of thinking out of the box, which is what I desperately needed. There were so many norms that get ingrained into us by the time we’re in our mid-twenties, especially if you’re going through institutional learning. They just ingrain a lot of myths, and they also leave out a lot of things they should have been teaching you that they didn’t teach you anything about. All of a sudden, I started to realize that there were other ways to do things and they weren’t the way that I’d been taught all my life in school. I started getting off the path onto my own path.

I was actually working a job at the time. I was on my lunch hour and I browsed the local bookstore. I saw this book, I picked it up, I read probably three paragraphs, went to the register and bought it. I then spent the rest of the afternoon fascinated by the information in that book. The conclusion I came to, at the end of reading this, was that if you could do it with nothing, it ought to be super easy if you have some cash, which I did. I said, “Great. This looks like a recipe for baking a cake, so I’m going to go out and do it.”I didn’t give it a second thought, I didn’t worry about risk, I didn’t worry about all the things that I would now worry about maybe if I were to try it again. I just went out and I bought an apartment building, and it was by the skin of my teeth. Once I actually acquired the building, I was praying that nothing went wrong with it because I didn’t have a single dollar leftover from by the time the entire transaction was over.

That’s where the learning began. You started growing. I remember at that point my life, too, the exact same point, where I was out there on a limb, on a whim, and then I recognized that I was growing a mile a minute. I was having revelations all the time, sometimes favorable revelations about what I’d done and sometimes unfavorable, but I recognized them as lessons that I was learning. You couldn’t take those lessons away from me anymore. Every time I learned a lesson, it was another thing that I knew how to avoid or how to capitalize on. You couldn’t take that away from me. You could drop me off right now, you could drop me off anywhere in my underwear, and I would be worth a substantial amount of money in a short period of time. You could go from being in your underwear to be dressed, to eating to the next phase, figure out how I’m going to get a car, next phase.

It would start out slowly, it wouldn’t be the things that I would choose at first, but it wouldn’t be what I’m going to end up as. Entrepreneurs never end up with the business that they start. They always end up with a different business that was a result of morphing into the pathway to the most profitability with the least amount of resistance. We keep morphing all the time.

This is almost identical to what happened to me when I started my software company. In fact, I sold my real estate to finance the beginning of my software company. By the time we had completed all of our work and were ready to go out into the world with a product, the reason for that product disappeared. There you go, exactly what you just said.

I want to say this to the people out there who read some books and sometimes it’s over your head. I read nothing down. It was seven years after I read that book that I finally owned the concept in my heart that I didn’t need money to make money. It would start out basically in my arena, but the theory could be applied to almost any arena. When you don’t have money, you’re a professional idea man or deal finder. The guy who has the great idea can take it and partner with people that have the money or have what you lack. The guy that has the great contract but maybe has no money to take it down but you have 30 days to take it down, you have 30 days to find someone who wants to share in this terrific profitable contract if we could just exercise it. In the early days, I was a professional deal maker and a professional deal writer because I didn’t have the money. When you don’t have the money, you’ve got to give up a large percentage, usually up to half. I signed up a house for $100,000 that’s worth $200,000. I’d have to give up half the $100,000 profit for someone who would bring the money. I learned real early on that half of something was way better than 100% of nothing. I exercised that so I didn’t need money people as much anymore.

I just want to finish the story about the book, because for me a very important moment in time was just a few years ago when I got to meet Robert Allen in person. I shook his hand and thanked him for writing that book and told him the story about how I used it to do what I did. He sat there patiently, listened to me, and it was a wonderful experience getting to meet him.

I would love to meet him someday. There’s another guy I would like to meet named John McCormack who wrote a book called Self-Made in America which posed the question, “Why is it that immigrants can come to this country and not know the culture or even the language, and within five to seven to ten years be financially independent when we as Americans who are born on the corner of success and opportunity can live our whole lives in this country and not ever find financial independence?”At the end of that book, I started to live my life like an immigrant. I started to realize that I was going to have to reinvent myself just like the immigrants that would come over here who had to reinvent themselves completely. I started to try to think of myself as an immigrant, and that I was going to go through hard times just like them, that it was okay and it was part of the journey. I had to start at the bottom and I had to not expect anything. There was no entitlement whatsoever. If there were mistakes made, I had to look in the mirror and blame myself and no one else, and go forward from there. It was a great revelation to me.

At the end of the book, I came to the conclusion that Americans do not sacrifice at the level that these immigrants sacrifice for two reasons. One is they sacrifice way more than we do because they’re used to sleeping on the floor. They’re used to sleeping on rice pallets. They’re used to eating and not having much. That sacrifice, they’d already been living like that for a long time. I had to digress. I came from middle America. I had to get used to the idea that I was going to go down low. I was going to have to find comfort there by myself and work my way through these challenges by myself, keeping control of my mind, not letting myself have negative thoughts, not beating myself up, and telling myself, “We’re starting from the very bottom for a reason because this is how you’re going to learn. This is where you going to build your foundations.”The last revelation was immigrants recognize the United States as the Golden Meadow. It’s the place where all their dreams could come true. I It was very apparent, and it still is to this day, that most Americans take for granted the infrastructure that we have in this country. It’s so normal to us that we don’t see the huge opportunities that are presented to us because they’ve been around us for so long that we don’t see them. I started to open my eyes wider and start to see the differences between where these people came from and what’s here, and start to understand why they are so willing to sacrifice so much because they could see it right in front of them. If they just gave up some now, they would have more than enough for tomorrow and forever.

The enemy of success is comfort. That’s what I’ve learned being an entrepreneur.

That’s a great story and a great inspiration as well. I really loved hearing about your start. When did you start acquiring homes, and what was that like in the first few times you did it?

I bought my first condo when I was 21 and someone owner-financed it to me. I was working a bartending job and someone owner-financed me the home. It was a one-bedroom small condo. I realized if I had a two-bedroom, I could rent one of the bedrooms out and I could probably live for free or very close to free. If I left this one-bedroom condo and I move to a two-bedroom condo, and I rented out the one-bedroom condo and had a roommate in my two-bedroom condo, then I would absolutely live for free and even have a little bit of money left over. That was my first real estate deal. Seven years after reading Robert Allen’s book that I took that Nothing Down theory and owned it in my heart. I actually did it by accident when I bought a house with nothing down using his tactic. All of a sudden after that first deal, not only was what Robert Allen was preaching was possible, I had just done it, all of a sudden I owned it in my heart and I started doing it over and over and over again. I bought my first one hundred houses on credit cards, and I never had any of my own money involved.

I didn’t even think you could do that. Didn’t you have to show up at the bank with a certified check in order to pass papers? 

There was two ways to do it. You could take the credit card down to the bank and you could ask to get the cash advance limit off of it. Back at the time, I always had good credit. I’ve always had a high integrity, and so I was fortunate to have this one asset. Back in that day, if you had good credit, you could apply for a credit card and they just give you the card. It didn’t matter how many cards you had, they just give it to you. Today, they regulate how much unsecured resources you can get your hands on and it affects your credit score. I went out and I applied for 50 credit cards and I got all 50 and all of them had a $10,000 or $5,000 or $20,000 or $30,000 cash advance limit. If you went down to the bank and held out the card and asked for the cash, they charged 3% of the value, but if you called the credit card companies and asked for the checks for the credit card, it was fifty dollars a check.

It didn’t matter how much you took out. I’d go down to the bank and I would write the check from the credit card and I would get my $10,000 off this card, and then I’d write another check for this other card and I get $10,000 off that card. At the time, that would buy houses in the lower districts of my city. Then I get another check for $10,000 and I do the remodel with that $10,000. I would take those three credit cards and I would tape them to the inside of a folder knowing that that was my debt. Whenever I sold those houses, the title company would give me all the money because there was no liens on my houses because it was all credit card debt. I would get all the money, take it back to the bank, put it the bank, then I’d have my wife call the credit card company and find out how much we owed. We would immediately send all the money to the credit card companies and whatever was left over was mine. That’s how I kept straight in a very simple fashion.

YFTC 015 | Overcoming Hopelessness
Overcoming Hopelessness: It was the hardest $10,000 I ever spent because it was the last $10,000 I had. When it’s your last money, it’s always a lot of money.

You did this for 100 purchases?  

At least.

Over what time period is this? 

In 1996 when I went full time, I did 45 houses that year. In ’97, I did 65 houses. In ’98, I did 150 houses, and then it’s ‘Katy, bar the door’ after that.

I assume at some point as you were building this little operation up, you started to put together your own crew.

It wasn’t much as my crew. I always believed I didn’t want to have those types of employees, so I always subbed everything out. The crew that I was building were the partners and the money guys and the people that were finding deals that didn’t have the money. I became an expert at raising private money in large part because I paid people back. I paid people back on time, if not early, even if I lost money, they got paid. It didn’t matter and I never talked about my losses. I never made my problems their issue. They just got paid. Today, I have over $12 million of private money. I borrow money, I pay 8% interest only for five years, and I give them a first lien on the property that I buy. I usually owner-finance that property for double what I owe. I’ve been doing that now for years and years. I buy houses with other people’s money, I give them a first lien on my property, and then I owner-finance it for double. That’s how I create my wealth.

That’s an unbelievable story. When you started doing this were you following a model, or did this just evolved for you as you learned what to do? 

When I started, I was buying rental properties. It’s probably one of the biggest myths perpetrated on all the wannabe investors out there, this buy and hold theory. They almost always say you’re going to buy this house and you’re going to owe $500 a month and then you’re going to you’re going to rent this house out and you’re going to collect $900 a month. That’s $400 a month so that’s $4,800 a year. That’s right where the whole thing blows up. It’s not $4,800 a year because you’re just assuming that the long list of liabilities that you have as a landlord, nothing’s going to go wrong. No air conditioner is going to break, no one’s going to move out in the middle of the night, no one’s going to not pay you, a thousand different things. Hot water, heaters, doors, windows, faucets, sinks, you name it. Anyone who thinks that you’re collecting $900 and you’re paying out $500, that you’re going to clear $400 a month in a rent houses, it doesn’t work like that.

As I said, entrepreneurs rarely end up with the business they start, so through a chain of events I learned how to owner-finance these houses. I had 25 houses I was renting; I was supposed to make $7500 a month on the positives. I wasn’t making anything at the end of the year. One air conditioner could cost me the whole years’ worth of money on a house. I got scared and I wanted out, and I made my first big advance by accident. I hired someone and I paid them $10,000 to help me get out of these rent houses and not lose my credit and my reputation. That person taught me how to owner-finance houses and inadvertently taught me how to stay in a business for over twenty years that I wanted to get out of first. He taught me how to treat houses and how to use houses to create real wealth. I owner-financed all my 25 houses to the people that were in them I had to move them out if they didn’t want to buy it, and get someone in there that wanted to give me $3,000 down or so. I average about $3,000 down a house. This was twenty years ago. All of a sudden, I had $75,000 in the bank. I’ve never seen that much money in my life in one place in my account. Then the $7,500 a month that I was supposed to be collecting as a landlord was actually hitting my bottom line because I was the bank, and I was responsible for whoever it was to collect the payments. If the air conditioner broke, it wasn’t my air-conditioner. If this faucet leaked, it wasn’t my faucet. I was simply the bank. Can you imagine calling your mortgage company and telling them, “My air conditioner broke, you need to send somebody over here?”Mortgage companies are going to tell you, “It’s your house you fix it.” That’s what changed my life.

It was the hardest $10,000 I ever spent because it was the last $10,000 I had.$10,000 dollars to this day is a lot of money. Twenty years ago it was more money. When it’s your last money, it’s always a lot of money. It was very difficult to write that. This person had 500 houses free and clear. I figured he knew what he was doing. He was in his 30s. I knew him well as a person, and I didn’t think he was going to take my $10,000 if he wasn’t sure he could help me fix this problem. He fixed it in short order.

People come into our lives for a reason, and they usually arrive at exactly the right time, as has happened for you in that moment, and put you on the path that you’re on today, which is absolutely incredible. Just a quick yes or no, is this now what you teach people to do?

Yes. I specialize in the art of owner-financing.

I want to get more about that later, but before we do, I wanted to ask you. On your path up way, where you started buying houses, and you’re buying 150 a year now, who did all of the scoping out of the homes? How did you find places? How did that show up?

YFTC 015 | Overcoming Hopelessness
Overcoming Hopelessness: My Life & 1000 Houses: The Art of Owner Financing

The Art of Owner-Financing is my third book. The second book I wrote was 200 Plus Ways to Find Bargain Properties, because that was the question of the day. How in the world do you find so many houses? At the time, we had so much private money, that I couldn’t spend it all. I even asked one guy, “How much money do you want to get out.” He said, “You cannot get out enough.” I took that as a personal challenge. That was a year about 150 houses. What I did was I walked out into the real estate investment community, and announced that if they had a deal that they could have under contract for $0.50 on the dollar, I would put up the money and split with them. Since I was putting up all the money or I was responsible for all the money from my investors, there had to be a handshake and that I would pay them at the end of the deal on a handshake. That reputation got around very fast, that people would get paid, that I was transparent, and that there was a spreadsheet with every check number, with everyone it was written to, with what it was for, and the calculations on how we arrived at the rent on that house was crystal clear. There was no fudging, there was no padding. I woke up in the morning and found lines outside my door, lines of ten, fifteen, twenty people waiting to show me their deal.

Talk about turning the tables. From having to run around and look at properties and try to bargain with somebody to get that property with all kinds of unknowns around it, you just turned the whole thing around. You had them come to you.

There were people that I flipped over my career that I’ve done hundreds of houses with, just a person. There are many people that I have done over 100 houses with. Now I don’t do that today, because I can self-fund. I found ways to cut down that 50 % that I was giving up and to find the houses myself instead of having someone else go out and find them, or have people in-house helping me find the houses. Right now I have five acquisition managers. All they do every day is use the criteria and the expertise that I have to go out and find houses, and I don’t pay 50% of my profit anymore.

It is this in the local area where you live, or is this nationwide? 

I do it all in my hometown. Actually, it’s over 1,500 houses today, but who’s counting.

You have blown my mind. You have opened my eyes to a way of looking at real estate investing. I’ve never considered it this way before. It’s just incredible to hear you speak about this the way you have. It’s almost like a light opened up in the sky, and I see things completely differently now. It’s incredible. Thank you for that.

Having a revelation is always great. I look for those monthly or weekly. The more you know about business, the harder it is to have a revelation. I have a podcast too. The reason why I have it is not so much so I can bestow my knowledge on anybody else. It’s because I get to talk to really smart people that open up my mind more and more. I find it very intriguing where people’s limits are in their minds, even very successful people. One of the things that I had to overcome with the investors that I would meet, they were all doctors and lawyers and very successful people that lived in the very nice parts of town in very nice houses. I was making my money in the lesser parts of town, and that really scared a lot of people when I would show them the houses I was buying. Then I would take them to the schools and show where the schools were overcrowded and that there was more than one button every chair practically. Whether you would live there or not, someone calls that a home. We have to not take that lightly. We have to find a way to provide more and more homes from our company to them, and that’s how we were growing. I was growing in the lesser parts of town for a lot of reasons. One, I was scared to borrow lots of money. Two, if you stayed in the lesser parts of town, those houses can’t really devalue very much. They’re already at the medium or to the lower end of the scale. During the recessions, I would have more business, because people would have to find less expensive places to live. In my echelon of houses, if they’re ever not worth anything, then we’re picking up guns and we’re going somewhere. My little three-bedroom, two-bath 1,000-square foot or 1,200-squarefoot homes, there will always be a need for them until something cataclysmic happens.

What are the price ranges of the homes that you’re putting people into these days?

I’ve expanded. I live in a very unique city, but it’s not so unique. There’s other cities around the country that this works in. There are a lot of cities that it doesn’t work in, like California, San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas, at times most of Florida doesn’t work, because my bread and butter house ordeal is when I can owner-finance a house to a person and they owe me $100,000 or less. That’s the sweet spot, because in that price range, I can move a person from a $1,000 rent to $1,000 ownership, the separator being “Do you have a substantial down payment that gives me enough comfort given that you don’t have great credit?”I let their down payments be their credit, and they can move from a rental payment over to a house payment, and it will be the same amount of money per month, give or take $50.

My challenge to people is how do you take what you’ve heard from Mitch today, and how do you reposition it in your own business? The lessons that you’ve brought to us today Mitch have been absolutely profound. I’m just so thrilled to have had this conversation. I know that anyone who listens to this show is going to be amazed at some of the things you’ve said. Let’s move to the next part of our interview, which is really to talk about you. What is it that you’re truly passionate about today?

That’s part of my problem. I have lots of different passions. Some of them make money and some of them don’t, so you have to temper it. I’m gifted with a right brain and a left brain. I have this artsy fartsy side of me that’s a songwriter. I’ve written hundreds of songs; you can see over 100 songs written or co-written by yours truly at You can listen for free full length to my stuff. I don’t make a ton of money from that at all. I don’t want to make that a business because that’s where I go for my hobby or my relief. That’s where I vent. I really don’t want to make that into a job. However, if George Strait’s out there and he wants to cut one of my songs, please go ahead and cut it. I would love the check. I also am very passionate about helping people quit their jobs. The way that I know how to do it is through real estate in owner-financing and wholesaling. I really get a kick out of helping people grow and take control of their own financial future so that they can quit giving 2,600 hours a year to their boss and start working on themselves and their own business, in achieving their own dreams, and being around the ones they love more often than not.

YFTC 015 | Overcoming Hopelessness
Overcoming Hopelessness: My Life & 1,000 Houses – 200+ Ways to Find Bargain Properties

If people are hearing you and want to learn from you and want to get involved and maybe even write some songs with you, how can they get a hold of you? What is your website?

You can always get a hold of me at You can send an email there, it will get to me for sure. My website has tons of free stuff there and webinars on exactly what I do to manipulate a housing market so that I can profit and so that I can help others move from being a renter to be an owner. There’s enough free information there to launch a career for a certain personality type. Other personality types might have to take advantage of some of the coaching or the mentoring offered there, but my theory is give a person everything I have. If you think I can shortcut your learning curve or help you get there faster, then maybe we can have a conversation about that coaching. I’ll give you everything you need there. It’s always helps to have someone who’s been there before, looking over your shoulder so you don’t make mistakes. My biggest fear is that people go out on their own and try something like I almost did, and then quit because we made some vital mistakes in the beginning and end up walking away from a career that would have been a multi-million-dollar success for them. They just didn’t have guidance from people who had been there before. You can go out on your own if you want to, but there’s really no way an expert at what you do is not going to shortcut or help you streamline and get to where you’re going faster.

That’s very generous of you. I can’t wait to take a look at those videos as well. I have one more question for you and this is what I call the “change the world question.”What is it that you were doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?

I may have already done it. There’s people that are made to change the world in mass, and then there’s people that help change the world in a very small way, but both are needed. We need the big huge thinkers that are going out and have reached the success level where they can really do multi-million dollar projects that help change the world. Then there’s people that help people more one on one. You never know the ramification. If I can change the world of 100 people, how many of those 100 will go on to be very successful, and how many of those people will also be someone who helps another four or five or another 100 or another 500 change? If you look at it in a viral way, you can change the world by just helping the few that you can reach. Don’t ever discount because you’re not reaching millions that it doesn’t eventually reach millions. It can go out in many fingers.

One of the things I have already done is I wrote a book out of tragedy. I didn’t want to write a book. I never saw myself as a book writer. It was never on my bucket list, but I wrote a book called My Life and 1000 Houses: Failing Forward to Financial Freedom, where I catalogued my journey and my time in the woods, and all the thought processes of how I was morphing. That book has already changed many lives. It certainly hasn’t changed as many lives as maybe some of the more well-known authors, but people call me all the time and relate back to it. My story fits right in with their story. When they tell me their story, we’re really not that same except for the one thing that resonates through almost everyone’s life, we all spend our time in the woods but not all of us figure out how to get out of it, or not in a timely fashion. I like to write more pertinent books from the heart and affect as many people as I can affect through that written word. Books have a life of their own. They go out there, and just because that book was bought by one person doesn’t mean that that exact book hasn’t been read by twenty people by now. It gets passed around from the flea market to the garage sale, and those books keep traveling. I just think that’s a wonderful thing.

I have to tell you that you are an enabler, and that’s basically what you’re doing. You change the world through enabling others to change the world in a bigger way. You have an enormous position. I love what you do. I love your story Mitch, and it was such a pleasure having you on the show.

I really appreciate being on this podcast.

Let’s see if we could do it again. How’s that? 

That’s great, I appreciate it very much.

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