John is the creator of Smart Business Revolution, which helps entrepreneurs and small business owners bring in more income and clients by building real human relationships. He is also the co-founder, with Dr Jeremy Weisz, of Rise 25 Inner Circle. He is a former writer in the Clinton White House and has appeared in Forbes, Entrepreneur, Huffington Post, The Art of Manliness, Lifehacker, Business Insider, and numerous publications, blogs, and websites.

John Corcoran on Building Personal Relationships with Clients

Our very special guest is John Corcoran. He’s an attorney, writer, father, and former Clinton White House writer and speechwriter to the Governor of California. Throughout his career, he has worked in Hollywood, the heart of Silicon Valley, and owns his own boutique law firm in San Francisco, catering to small business owners and entrepreneurs. He is the creator of Smart Business Revolution and the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. He’s the co-Founder with Dr. Jeremy Weisz of Rise25 Inner Circle, an annual accountability and group coaching program for professional service entrepreneurs who want to diversify the revenue and scale up. He has appeared in Forbes, Entrepreneur, Huffington Post, Art of Manliness, Life Hacker, Business Insider, Get Rich Slowly, and numerous other publications, blogs, and websites. Welcome, John. It’s great to have you.

I’m glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

One of the things that we focus on with the show is we’d like to go to CEOs who built a company to at least 1,000 clients and dig in deep and figure out how they started their company. If you wouldn’t mind going back in time a little bit and sharing with us how you came about the idea of what you’re doing and how it got started.

I always wanted to start my own business. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I ended up going down a path of working in politics and opportunities came along. It wasn’t until I finally decided I’m going to go back to law school, I went to law school and started working in the legal profession, that I finally had the opportunity to start my own business and do my own thing. I worked for a couple of years for other law firms. The legal profession is a really antiquated profession. People tend to do things the way they always have, not a lot of innovation. I didn’t do well with that. I wanted to start my own thing, and I did. I eventually started my own firm and got busy enough. I quickly realized the limitations of a legal profession is monetized based on the billable hours, much like consulting or coaching a lot of times is, and it’s very limited. Very quickly, I looked for other ways to diversify my revenue streams. That was the initial vision. I was practicing law and it was the way to make money and start my own business. My businesses have evolved a lot since that point.

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Relationships: I looked for other ways to diversify my revenue streams. That was the initial vision.

You were maybe in the best possible position to go into the legal profession in Washington, where people would think, “This guy has got to have so many connections inside the government.” That must have been a hard decision for you to move away from the legal profession and start your business.

I didn’t move away initially because I was working for a law firm. This is what I advise other people to do all the time. I went from working for a law firm and immediately went to practicing law. It wasn’t that much of a leap. I say to people, “If you want to start a yoga business, don’t go from being a florist or working as a teacher. Go work for another yoga business. That way at least you’re not learning how to do all these things.”It wasn’t that big of a leap for me. I was doing the same work. A lot of clients came over with me. You minimize the number of things that you have to learn when you start your new business.

Tell us about the transition going from law to Smart Business Revolution and what is that really about?

For me, I always wanted to write a book. I always thought, “It’d be cool to write a book.” When you tell people that then they say, “You should start a blog because you need a blog and you can build an audience that way.” I was like, “Okay.” I did that. “You can’t just have a blog. You actually have to have an audience.” I said, “How do you build an audience?” “You have to build an email list.” “How do you build an email list?” It just went down the rabbit hole until I finally figured out something that works. It took a while and then eventually I never even really wrote and published a book. I’ve published books on my own website but not in the traditional sense, and then eventually started monetizing my business in additional ways. It was a very slow and gradual and iterative process. What I do now is something that I couldn’t have conceptualized ten years ago. I never would have imagined that the way that I make money now was even possible because it depends on a lot of technology things like webinars which weren’t all that prevalent ten years ago. It evolved and it took a lot longer than I wanted it to, but I’m happy to be here at this point.

Tell us how you got your email list to the point where it is today. I want to know that. How did you do that?

When I look back at 2014, I worked really hard on growing my email list because I realized it wasn’t enough to have this blog. You actually have to have an email list because that’s the most direct channel. Everyone still uses their email. It’s the most direct channel, the most responsible for speaking with people, for communicating with people. I started at about a thousand email subscribers. By the end of the year, I’d done a ton of guest posting. You mentioned them, Forbes, Huffington Post, Entrepreneur, all these different sites, niche blogs, and things like that. I went from about 1,000 to 5,800 email subscribers during the course of the year. That’s about a six-fold increase. I thought, “That’s pretty good. I could keep on doing that.”

The thing is when you draft blog posts from scratch, it takes a ton of effort doing it on all these other websites. At the beginning of 2015, I started doing webinars. During the first quarter of 2015, I ended up doubling my email list from about 6,000 to 12,000 email subscribers. I thought, “Forget about guest posting. I’m not going to do this anymore. I’m just going to double down our webinars.” I ended up doing about 83 live webinars during 2015. I added about 21,000 email subscribers during the course of that year. I continued to do a lot of webinars, double down on that strategy, and since that point, diversify into other lead generation sources as well. For me it’s been webinars. For other people it might be YouTube or some other strategy. You got to do what works for you, but for me it’s worked really well.

The thing about a webinar is you got to have something to sell on a webinar. I could do a webinar but what happens if I don’t have something to sell? How did you figure out and what actually is it that you offer in your webinar?

Actually if you want to dip your toes in the water and get started with webinars, there’s a lot of ways to monetize your webinars. You don’t necessarily have to have a digital product or an online course in order to do it. A lot of people do consulting or coaching. You can use that to monetize your webinar. You can use someone else’s product too. You don’t have to have your own product. You can serve as an affiliate or a partner for someone else. It could be software. You could go out there and find software, an existing program that is appropriate for your audience. I often say to people, “Look at the resources, the software and the tools that you use and recommend now in the works that you do.”If they have a partnership program, you can use that to monetize your webinar.

It’s also important that you actually do monetize your webinar because there are some people who do start doing webinars and they think, “I don’t need to make money off of this,” at least initially, and so they give up. I do think you should make money and you can monetize it in those variety of different ways. Eventually, it’s better to have some product or program or offering or things like that. What I do now is helping a lot of entrepreneurs to figure out what that looks like in a one-to-many fashion. If you continue to be one-to-one consulting or coaching, then there’s a limit on how many hours in the day that you can do this work.

Your product is about helping entrepreneurs figure out what their webinar might be. Is that what you’ve described?

I’ve gone through a couple of different digital training courses. I initially created one that was called Connect with Influencers which is based on my own personal experience, connecting with influencers and VIPs indifferent industries, giving you advice on how to do that, and grow their business by building relationships with the VIPs and influencers in their field. From there, I’ve created a couple of other digital training programs. Since I grew my audience, I was able to start doing these live events for entrepreneurs. I’d partnered up with Dr. Jeremy Weisz who is in a group that you and I belong to as well. He’s trained as a chiropractor out of Chicago. I’m trained as a lawyer out of San Francisco. We both diversified our revenue resources. We started helping more professional services entrepreneurs to figure out how to make that shift from one-to-one to one-to-many which so many people in a consulting, coaching, financial advising, all this different profession, struggle with.

I’m listening to your story and the way you’re describing it is that you’re like all of us. You are searching for and finding your way. You started with blogging and then from blogging you went to doing webinars. You weren’t quite sure it sounds like what were the best webinar products. You tried a few, from what I’m hearing, until finally you landed on several or one that worked. Now at this point you started to sell product. Take us through the transition. Let’s say you made fourteen, twelve, fifteen, eighteen sales on a webinar, by the time you got to a hundred or few hundred sales, what was different? What had change? What had you figured out? What analysis was required to get to that point?

It gets to the point where you can start optimizing parts of the process that you don’t have the bandwidth to optimize at the beginning. You need to bring on other people who can help you to manage things that weren’t manageable in the beginning. For example, when you’re selling offerings and you have one person at a time that are buying your product or your service, that is not a big a deal to welcome them. Maybe you send a welcome email or you talk to them on the phone or something. Then eventually if you add five, ten, six, twenty people at a time then that’s a lot of people to add inside of a Slack channel or into a Facebook group or whatever private community that you have. You have to start automating these things. You can’t grow until you automate these things or else it will really hold you back. The main thing is you start thinking about, “What’s going to help me so that I can continue to grow?” There’s no way that I could have done 83 live webinars in a twelve-month period if it was just me or if I didn’t have tools in place. In order to be able to do those things you need to have systems in place, you need to have a good team. I’ve got some great people who have helped us tremendously in growth and growing.

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Relationships: In order to be able to do things, you need to have systems in place and you need to have a good team.

It’s finding the product then finding the system that works for you. Once the system is in place you can start to then scale the labor and get help in implementing the system that you’ve created. I’m sure you’re constantly refining that system as you go along. Is that right?

Absolutely, trying something, figuring out whether it works or not, constantly talking to other people, getting feedback, figuring out what’s resonating with your buyers, your market, what doesn’t resonate, if there are any pain points. I’ll give you an example. We have a higher level group now, an annual program for professional service entrepreneurs who want to make the shift from one-to-one to one-to-many. We do three live events per year. When we were first telling people about it, we had all these different features we were telling them about like, “You’re going to get this and this.” All the different things that we dreamed of and we thought, “They’re going to love this.” Of all these different things that we thought people would go bonkers over, there was just one thing that stood out head and shoulders over all the rest consistently over and over again. We have what we call our Sherpas. They are entrepreneurs that have built eight or nine-figure businesses who come to our events and give feedback to the other attendees.

It’s like the sharks in Shark Tank but you’re not investing people’s businesses. For whatever reason, that one thing resonate with people. It really helped us to evolve and change our direction and change the way that we articulate our offerings. I am a big believer that you have to have your ear to the ground at all times. You need to be listening to the marketplace. You need to be having conversations with people. You cannot absolutely delegate and outsource everything you do because you need to be on the front lines. You need to know what’s happening. You need to know what people are saying, what people are reacting well to and not. It’s part of the reason I love webinars because webinars give you multiple different datapoints. You get feedback from people. It’s not like a speech where you’re seeing people’s faces, but there are other ways you can get a lot of information from people. As you delegate and outsource a lot of the work that you do, you need to continue to make sure that you’ve got that feedback loop that’s constantly coming back to you.

This is a more sophisticated way of flinging spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks at some level. That’s how we all start. We operate like a ton of stuff and then we find out that there’s 2% to 3% of what we really offer that people gravitate towards and love which is fantastic. That came after you’ve had several hundred clients, and as you started to approach that thousand-client mark, you had built your list, you had done webinars, you had gotten automation, you had hired people, you had started to refine what was working and then what was not. Were there further moments when all of a sudden you had this insight that, “I could take this to the next level, we’re doing this,” and what was that?

A couple of things stand out. One is you need to think about diversifying at all times. One thing that I learned as I said as a lawyer is that you don’t hire a lawyer to assume that everything’s going to be rosy. You hire a lawyer to assume that everything is going to go to crap. They dream of these nightmare scenarios. Entrepreneurs tend to be positive. I’m a positive person but I am thinking about, “If this lead generation source drops off tomorrow, what are you going to do?” You need to be thinking about that. The other thing that I find has been really valuable is to almost return to your roots, return to your basics. We talk all this marketing automations and stuff like that. There’s really nothing to substitute for just the personal visceral interaction that you get.

I had been, in a non-scalable way, just messaging more with people, whether it’s over social media platforms like Facebook or LinkedIn or sending more emails either just reactively reacting to people who email me and responses on e-mail blasts that I sent out to my list, or proactively even. I use Contactually as my CRM, Customer Relationship Management platform. I tag people in a lot different ways and I got a different list of people that have expressed interest in different things. I’ll just go through and message people. One other thing that’s valuable is I’m a big advocate in having a product ladder, you have different products at different levels. I realized over the last couple of years that I hadn’t done a great job of creating that product ladder and having different offerings at different levels.

You need to have a way to get people into your universe at a low commitment. I’m not talking about an email opt-in, but maybe something low level that can get them into your universe so that they can express some interest, they’re raising their hand, and you can have a conversation about ways in which you can work together a little bit further. That’s critical. What’s present on my mind is that, my business partner, Jerry, and I are organizing a live event and an upcoming conference. We’re going to have about 150 to 200 people at this VIP reception that we’re throwing. For us, it’s people raising their hand. It’s the low level offerings. It’s the beginning of the product ladder because then it will open us up to a conversation with them about whether we are a good fit to work together for others. That’s really important as well.

I want to go back to something you said and relate it to a little bit of my own experience. When I was building my software company, we had an elite group of folks in my company called Certified Consultants. Those were the elite clients who had paid for training and also were working on behalf of the company to help train other clients. I started doing this almost as an afterthought and it became something so valuable. Every time I would go on a business trip, I would message the certified consultants in the city I was traveling to and I would offer to buy them dinner. Then I would get like a room at a restaurant and I’d have any eighteen, twenty people show up or something like that, and buy them dinner. We just had a great time. Besides having a great time, what that was doing was deepening the relationship that I had with my own customers and that they had with each other. In a forum, we were creating our culture in an ad hoc way. It sounds like you’re doing that now with your messaging.

I’ll bet those partners that came out to those dinners became so much more effective for you. A business is built on personal relationships like that. You as the founder of the company coming around on a business trip and reaching out to them, you had hundreds of these certified partners all over the country and getting together one-to-one and getting to know them, I’m sure they were touched by that. I’m sure it made them work so much harder for you. I’m a big believer in doing that and we’ve been doing that. Jeremy and I have done that over the last couple of years where we do those types of events, small little group dinners. It just so happens this is really the first one where a small little group dinner is turning into a party with 150 to 200 people because it’s a variety of different factors. We partnered with a couple other companies in order to bring many people in the door. It goes to show you the importance of treating everyone like a human, like an individual, even if you’ve got 100,000, 200,000 people on your email list, to try and retain that personal connection.

I had 250,000 customers in my software company. I actually spoke to the first 10,000 of those customers myself. I’m very aware of what you’re saying and I’m very big believer in that personal contact. I would say to anybody, “If you’re afraid to make that call, if you feel as if you’d be intruding on somebody, throw all those thoughts away. Start doing it right away and you’ll see the evolution of those relationships right in front of your eyes.”Look what John has done and listen to some of the things that I’ve said. These are the building blocks of business. I was the only sales person in the company for the first two and a half years or so. We would go to a conference and I would set up a booth. Other people had traditional booths. I would take most of my booth space and turn it into a classroom.

I didn’t try to demo my software. I made one assumption that made me more money than ever before and that was I assumed that anybody who sat down in that chair for my demo was there to learn how to use my software. I turned it from a sales pitch to a user group. That quadrupled, quintupled sales almost instantly as soon I started doing that. It just got bigger and bigger every time I did it. Now you’re at the point where you have a thousand clients. You have sold a thousand products to a thousand people at least. Now you’re looking at the future. You talked a little bit about ascension, you talked a little bit about where you want to go in terms of having multiple-tiered products. What else is in place for you and how do you get there? Besides just thinking about a product, how did you actually get your company there?

For us, it’s a lot of iteration. All we’re doing is refocusing on the task that we have right now that we’ve already established. At least at this stage of growth we’re in right now, we know the strategy we need to follow. Some things come up that are new. For example, this party came up just over the last two months or so. It morphed out of a dinner but it’s still the same thing as a dinner because it’s still relationship-building at a conference where we know there’ll be valuable relationships. It’s just doing it a little bit more in scale this time, a party instead of a dinner. It’s just implementing on the things you’ve already identified are our strategy. For us, lead diversification is important. We’ve gotten a lot of leads, gotten a lot of email subscribers through the things that I’ve been doing so far primarily through webinars.

Creating new sources of lead growth is important for us. We’re doing more Facebook Ads and we’re experimenting with that to create additional sources of lead growth. From there, optimizing and improving our sales process. I’ve been a sales person and everyone’s in sales these days. If you read Dan Pink’s To Sell is Human, he says everyone’s in sales. I certainly was when I was running my own law firm. I feel like there’s a lot of room for improvement in that area. Continuing to improve that process and get better at selling and then increase your prices over time are all things that we could get better at. Eventually, as we get a process in place that is predictable and consistent, then we bring on the sales people. Jeremy and I have only been working together for about two years so we’re still in the midst of that where he and I are the salespeople, and we’re delegating and automating and outsourcing everything else off of our own plates, systematizing it. Eventually, we’ll be bringing in sales people to handle that.

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Relationships: Creating new sources of lead growth is important for us.

Let’s talk about the value and importance of joint ventures to your company. How did you break the ice and actually get your first joint venture?

I’m not a big advocate of podcasting, and I have to credit podcasting here because it was in an interview with a guy named Kevin Thompson who’s done a ton of joint ventures starting with teleseminars. He came on my podcast and he’s a friend of a friend. He had gone from commercial fishing. He’d been a commercial fisherman like the Otter Banks and Alaska and everything. He went from that to starting a carpet cleaning business, and then went from there to somehow getting into the internet in the early days, and then partnering with people and doing telesummits. He brought in something like $14 million over the course of about eight or nine years to his business primarily from just being really good at going out and finding people who had large audiences and partnering with them. He’s the most genuine down to earth nice guy. I was so blown away by that and I thought, “That is so amazing and I feel like I could do that.” I feel like I’m pretty good at connecting with people.

I just basically implemented that strategy with webinars. It’s about identifying proactively the people who you want to build relationships with. It’s going out there, finding a way to deliver value to them, build a relationship, and collaborate from there. That’s primarily what I did. It’s not like I had anything wonderful to offer. It’s not like I’m brilliant or anything like that. I just try and deliver value to people in any way that I can. It doesn’t always have to do with your vocation. It could be something like someone’s going on vacation and you need to give them advice on something and some place that they’re going to because you’ve been there before. It could be something really simple like that.

I just found that doing these collaborations through joint ventures is highly effective. A lot of people talk about Facebook Ads are really hot right now. Facebook Ads is bringing cold leads. There’s a big difference between warm leads and cold leads. When you do a joint venture, someone is vouching for you. Someone’s got an audience. They’re sharing you with that audience and they’re saying, “I trust John. You got to listen to him. He knows what he’s talking about in this area, so you listen up. He’s going to treat you well.” Then you do that, you treat them well. They are much more likely to come in warm and more likely to purchase something, invest in working with you than a cold lead is. That’s why it’s incredibly valuable.

You didn’t go through some course to teach you how to do this. You didn’t have to study this for weeks and months. All you did was basically find somebody else who you thought was talking to the same people you wanted to talk to and asked if they wouldn’t mind hosting you on a webinar and it was done.

A lot of people have this conception that they need to connect with some big person in their field. You don’t, really. I say to people, “If you have a hundred people on your email list right now, go find someone else who has a hundred people on an email list who’s got a similar audience. You do a webinar for their audience and they do webinar for your audience.” That’s as simple as it gets. This is nothing groundbreaking or new. The internet didn’t invent this idea. It’s as simple as in the offline world, businesses collaborate all the time. A flower shop and a juice shop collaborate, and the two of them have a joint sign together on the sidewalk, or a restaurant brings in some other business that comes in and they collaborate together. It’s about businesses working together in order to rise up together. That’s what really resonates with me as the idea behind that, and so I love doing it.

I have a friend who is a fine art photographer who goes to a restaurant, puts all his work up on their walls, doesn’t charge them a penny. They’re thrilled and he ends up generating $5,000 to $10,000 a month just from selling artwork from restaurants. There you go. There’s a joint venture. Almost anything you could think of can be a joint venture. Let’s move on now to a different topic. I have a feeling that maybe you’ve made a mistake along the way. Maybe you haven’t, but let’s say you did. Can you think of one that was maybe the mistake that could have potentially sunk your whole business? Was there anything like that?

I don’t know if there’s any one particular thing. My business has been through a series of transitions. When you’re shifting from one way of monetizing to another, cash flow is always a problem. I didn’t build up a big phenomenally successful business that just worked without any input from me and continue to spin off cash so that I could start another one. There are very few people who do that anyway. For me, it was about figuring out that one model wouldn’t work and shifting to the next. For example, the problem with practicing law or being a consultant, a coach or anything like that, when you’re trading hours for dollars, I call it the easiest business to get into but the hardest to get out of. You get into it very easily. It’s as simple as, “I’ll do this thing for you. You pay me.” Then you finally get busy and you don’t have any time left to get into something else. You’re never making money if you’re not working and you can’t go on vacation and all that stuff.

For me, shifting from that to something that was more scalable required an evolution. To use your friend Tony Robbins’ statement, it’s not a burn the boat strategy because I couldn’t burn the boats. The boats were putting food on the table. It was very slow and gradual, and that’s hard to do. It’s just to devote a little bit of time and to increase it over time, and that’s eventually what I did. I’ve done it again in shifting from my Smart Business Revolution business, which was primarily funded at least in the beginning through selling my own digital products and joint ventures where I was promoting someone else’s product, to then moving towards my Rise25 business with my business partner where we’re doing more live events and where we got group programs and our own trainings, and devoting some of the promotion time that we would promote something else, devoting it back to our own offerings which of course has its own process because you have to optimize it and increase.

For me, it’s been an evolution rather than a rip off the bandaid. I’d be lying if I said there weren’t times that scared me, especially going from practicing law. You have family members who doubt you. They’re like, “What are you doing? You’re starting this blog? You went to law school. Someone will pay you $350 an hour and you’re turning that down so that you can write a blog post? I don’t understand.” People will think you’re absolutely nuts. Dealing with that is very challenging and I totally understand that and I relate to people all the time who can relate to those situations where they’re doing something that their neighbors, their friends, their family think they’re crazy to do. It has been a bit of a rollercoaster as I’ve made this transition out of full-time client work to something that’s more scalable and impactful and lasting. It’s totally worth it. There are definitely going to be ups and downs as you go through it all.

There was a mindset that you needed to have in order to get from point A to point B. What would that mindset sound like inside of your head? What would you be saying to yourself?

You have to have enough confidence in what you’re doing that even if everyone around you is doubting you, that you’re going to continue going on it. There have been so many different times when the easier thing to do would have been to not do what I’m doing. It’s just to continue doing what I’ve done in the past. I had a certain vision in my head that I knew I wanted something. I didn’t always need to be at my desk in order to earn income. I didn’t always need to be chasing clients. I wanted to create something where people would be attracted to me for the vision and the words and ideas that I put out in the world, rather than me constantly chasing them. That’s no easy feat. It doesn’t usually happen overnight. It usually takes a while and initially it’s just like, “Can I squeeze in ten minutes a week to this new vision?” Then eventually it’s fifteen minutes a week. Then eventually you move up to fifteen minutes a day, and then eventually move up to a half an hour a day.

At some point there’s this tipping point and you realize, “I’m working on this new thing and the old thing I can let go of.” Eventually for me, it’s been about two years now. I haven’t added in a legal client. I completely moved away from it. That entire idea was crazy to me just three or four years ago. You have to have such confidence in your mind that you’re going to achieve this, that it’s going to happen. It might not happen in the next three months, but it’s going to happen eventually. You’re going to make sure that it happens and you’re going to do the things you need to do in order to do that. The other thing is that you’re going to suffer setbacks along the way. Things that are not going to sell as well as you wanted. The software is not going to work the way that you wanted. You’re going to send an email to a bunch of people that’s embarrassing. These things are going to happen and it’s not the end of the world. You’re going to get over it. That’s important as well.

When I was starting my first business, I had a lot of doubt about it. I got a tip from someone and the tip was very simple. “Just act as if you’re confident. You don’t have to be competent, just make believe you are, and see what happens. Just try it.”I was dumb enough to say,” I just did it,” and sure enough it worked. It gave me enough of a jumpstart to actually eventually start feeling confident about going in that direction. I bet we all go through that to some degree.

People then start treating you like you’re confident. People start turning to you like you know what you’re talking about. In some ways, business is not that different from high school. I have to act like in high school, like going to a high school party where everyone’s a little bit older than you and you’re not sure you belong, but you just fit in, and if you fit in then no one bothers you. Business is like that in some ways, too.

It sounds like you had quite a path to get to where you are. You worked really hard, you zig and zag and found your way which is amazing and wonderful. The real question I have for you is where is your absolute passion? What is the thing that you’re most passionate about right now?

The thing I’m most passionate about right now is the work that Jeremy and I are doing together. That is close to my heart because it was not that long ago that I was stuck on the client bandwagon, that I was working on the weekends, not seeing my family, not seeing my kids, up at night stressed out about where the next client was going to come from, and wanting to make that transition out of that to something that’s more impactful, to something that was serving people in a one-to-many fashion. I didn’t know exactly what that was going to look like. I didn’t know exactly how to get there, but I knew that I would get there. For me it is so moving for me to have a conversation with someone who is where I was just a couple of years ago, and they’re doubting themselves and they’re doubting whether they can do it. I say to them, “Whether we work together or not, whether I’m able to help you or not, just promise me that you are going to do it. I don’t want to flash forward to a year from now or five years from now and you’re doing the same thing that makes you miserable today because you’re going to be even more miserable with that then.” Find the will within you to make a change to just take a very small step.

YFTC 010 | Relationships
Relationships: Find the will within you to make a change to just take a very small step.

I’m a huge believer in micro commitments, very small commitments to yourself. Don’t set as a goal for yourself in the next twelve months selling 50,000 copies of a book you haven’t written. That’s a horrible thing to do. Set a goal to yourself that tomorrow you are going to sit down in front of the computer, and whether you type out a word or not, you’re going to spend fifteen minutes sitting in front of your word processor starting to write the first chapter of your book. That is what you need to do. I’m a big believer in helping people who, like me and like my business partner Jeremy, come from a professional services background and they’re frustrated doing the client work. It’s not that they hate working with clients, they might love some of it, but they’re frustrated by it and they want something more. This is what really lights me up these days, being able to help people with that.

If somebody would like to find out more about your services and how you may be able to help them, how would they do that?

It’s either is my home on the web or go to In fact if you go to we’ve got a three-word email template that we give away to people which can really help with the market research process. The big question everyone ask us is, “How do I know what I could offer? I know the client work that I’m doing, but what can I offer more than one person?” This is an email template that you can use to reach out to your market and start to get that research to figure out what you could create that would be impactful in the marketplace. They can they can connect with me there.

What would you like to do? What are you doing now that has the potential to literally change the world?”

The number of people who are service professionals is a huge chunk of the economy and it’s growing right now. I forget the exact statistics but it’s something like 80% of all workers are in service profession. It’s huge. Helping more people who are fuel stock in a service profession, they’re a business owner, they’re constantly chasing clients, they’re burnout, and they’re frustrated, they want to shift to something larger, they want to be more selective in clients they take on, being able to help them with a process that they can go through and tell them exactly what steps they need to take because so often they have no idea what the next thing they should do, that’s what I think is really world changing, allowing more people to go away from something that frustrates them and go towards something that excites them, especially in this time of massive change. We’ve got rapid digitization, we’ve got technologies like AI and machine learning and big data and things like that that are changing service professions dramatically right now, even ones like my own, the legal profession, which will be impacted dramatically in the years ahead. As that change is happening, helping more people to rather than be a victim to that change, but to evolve is something that is really gets me excited.

I would love to help you so if there’s anything we can do together, let’s do it because the world needs to change and we need to help service professionals make that transition. Instead of just following and keeping up, let’s help and enable people to actually lead as well. This has been so much fun. I’m so glad we had the chance to do this and thank you again for being on the show.

Likewise. Thanks, Mitch.

You’re welcome.

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