Andy Crestodina is a co-founder and the Strategic Director of Orbit Media, an award-winning 38-person web design company in Chicago. Andy is an expert in marketing, having built a company with 5 million in revenue with only 17 employees. Andy helps people understand how to double their traffic without spending money using his perfected processes that include utilizing testimonials and simplifying website designs to increase traffic and sales.

Andy Crestodina On Marketing with Brains, Not Budget

We’re about to interview a gentleman who is an expert in social media. Actually, it’s a little bit of an understatement to say he’s an expert in social media because he’s built an incredible company generating $5 million in revenue with seventeen employees. His most important element of what he does is to help people understand how to double their traffic without spending money. This gentleman has perfected this process along with other processes such as getting visitors to subscribe to newsletters and describing exactly how testimonials can increase response rate. It’s Andy Crestodina. Andy comes from Chicago and has some of the most unbelievable skills on the planet for getting people to reach a website and take action. Andy, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Mitch. Thanks for the intro. I’m honored to be here.

I gave you a pretty big buildup there so I’m going to ask you to really step up here because my listeners want to know all about the things we’ve just mentioned. Why don’t we start with you, Andy? Tell me a little bit about how you got into business and how you started building your own client base and getting to where you are today.

There’s a lot of passion in the beginning. I was very much obsessed with that art and science component to digital. I really just wanted to use both halves of my brain. In the full-time job I had in the 90s I didn’t seem to get the chance to do it. I quit that job and started building websites in January of 2000. I did it together with my partner, Barrett. He’s my friend from high school and roommate from college. He was already building websites actually, going back to ’97, so this is his twentieth year. I joined him in January of 2000 and never looked back. It’s just been a lot of fun. It’s all grown organically since then. We were always scrappy and hungry and resourceful. All of the growth has been organic and we got to this level here now without spending money in advertising. It’s all been a content marketing approach.

Let’s go back in time. That’s seventeen years ago and you guys were building websites. People were paying you to build websites, I presume. Is that right?

In the very beginning, we were so broke and so slow that I actually once traded a website for a coffee table. For the most part, Mitch, it’s the professional service approach. We’re not a product, we’re a service. I grew up working in restaurants so I definitely have always been a service-driven person. That’s the business. We try different things at different times, but we’re back to that core and that’s the only thing we do.

That’s not what exactly what you do today, is it? You do much more than just build websites.

YFTC 040 | Marketing with Brains

Marketing with Brains: The core service here is in the building and maintaining of the platform for our clients. It’s building websites.

As a service, we build websites, but I’m known for all the publishing and the content marketing and the awareness that we’ve generated by doing many, many other things. We build cars and we teach Driver’s Ed. If you come to any of our events or when you listen to the podcast or read the blog, or I have a book, it’s all about content marketing and how to get more value from that website. The core service here, 90% plus of the bill of the work we do is in the building and maintaining of the platform for our clients. It’s building websites.

Of course, part of building websites is making sure that they get the traffic they need to grow their businesses. 

Absolutely. The website itself is totally insufficient at generating demand. It’s only half the piece. It’s only half the puzzle.

I would assume at this point that when you’ve started your business seventeen years ago, when you built those beginning websites, you probably did them as a one-off fee until later you realized that it was the ongoing service that really made this website successful. Is that right?

Yeah, but we are still very lumpy in our revenue model. Almost everything we do is just that one-time or rather it’s once every two to five years people rebuild their websites. We’ve been doing this long enough that we have clients that we’ve done their sites three different times over and over every three to four years over a long period of time. That’s another reason why we do content marketing, is to keep that funnel full and keep demand flowing because we are very much a project-based business.

I’m glad we had this part of the conversation because my impression was that you had a business that not only just built websites but charged people to continuously drive traffic to those sites. Apparently, that’s not the case.

It’s not the case. The best way to do it and people who are the best in the business, don’t spend a lot of money in between those iterations of their site. You don’t necessarily need to pay a lot of money to keep driving traffic to a site. Part of what we do is show people how to do that with brains, not with budget.

Obviously, when you started this process and you were learning how to do this as you built your business, you used it yourself. You ate your own dog food, if you will. You used your own website to continuously drive more and more traffic into your business until now, I understand, you have more leads that you can even handle.

We’re standing under a waterfall. The people who are really, really good at digital and who understand how to do both halves of it, how to drive traffic and get those visitors who come to take action, if you’re a service provider, you really only have two options. That is to either hire people to grow your business and scale or raise your prices to move up the chain of value and control demand partly by just charging the premium because there is so much demand for what you do, having done such a good job on the marketing side of demand generation.

It’s pretty intuitive that demand only comes after you’ve done an incredible job for other people. You can’t raise your prices until you have so much demand that you have the luxury of turning people away who can’t afford your higher prices. 

There are three different levers you can pull as a business owner. The way that the math works, this is basically Business 101. You can become more efficient and improve margin, you can hire more people and scale, or you can just simply raise prices. Mitch, your point is excellent because it all is about value. Half of our work still comes from referrals. We have to hit a home run for every client or they wouldn’t come back and hire us again or they wouldn’t refer us to someone else. It’s not just a matter of generating so many leads that you can do shoddy work at a premium cost. We must honor the work that our clients give to us by exceeding their expectations for results every time. That’s the goal.

Everybody who is interested in scaling demand, the next part of what we’re about to talk about is going to directly affect you. Andy, let’s get into this a little bit. What I want to know is if you can continuously go back to the things you did as you were learning, because I think that’s important for us to understand as well. In today’s world, everybody has a website and we all know that it could be a tombstone, if you will, that never gets visited if in fact nobody knows it’s there or how to reach it. If you have a website today or if I have a website today, what are the basics of what a company should do with their website to ensure that it’s attracting attention?

One of the keys to understand first is to stop and think about the different sources of traffic that you may have. People may be typing your brand indirectly into their address bar, maybe searching for you in Google. They may be stumbling over your content and your shares or seeing something a friend shared in social media. They may see you in their inbox in email marketing. The one place that has the greatest likelihood to turn that visitor into a lead is search because the visitor from search has intent. They’re looking for something. Literally, they search, of course, they’re looking for something. Their fingers are on a keyboard, they’re typing in a phrase and that indicates their intent. we must first realize that search is the one channel that we are most likely to generate qualified visitors and actual demand for our services because those visitors are not just touching a piece of glass like a social media visitor, their fingers are on a keyboard. They’re looking.

Next, keep in mind that there are two kinds of phrases search for. Some phrases are just investigating, research, just looking information. Those are what I call the question mark phrases. The other type of phrase that people search for are the phrases that have commercial intent. The person wants to spend money, they need something, they have a problem they know they want to solve the problem. Those are the dollar sign phrases.

There are many channels but search is going to be the most effective at driving qualified visitors. In search, there are different types of phrases. It’s the commercial intent key phrases that drive the most qualified visitors. Step one is to make sure that the service pages, the product pages, the catalogue, the programs, the sales parts of your website are search optimized in the most basic ways, which means using the target key phrase in the title, in the header and in the body text. I had a meeting just this morning with a company. They do wedding photography. The best page on their website for that topic, wedding photography, was called photos. They didn’t even use the word wedding. It’s not uncommon. It’s a Digital 101. We should search optimize our products and services and programs for the target key phrase, the commercial intent key phrase, the phrase that’s the most likely to attract the visitor who needs us and might take action and become a lead.

Andy, what happens if I don’t know that?

If you don’t know the target key phrase or what the audience is searching for?

Yeah. What happens if I don’t know that?

YFTC 040 | Marketing with Brains

Marketing with Brains: Your audience sits down. They need you today. You can solve their problem.

That’s the first act of empathy that we all must do as marketers. That moment, Google calls it the zero moment of truth. Your audience sits down. They need you today. You can solve their problem. They have a pain point or they have an opportunity. They’re about to start typing. What do they type? If you don’t know, there are keyword research tools. You can use the Google Keyword Planner or KeywordTool.io or many, many other tools. One of them is just to go to your competitors, and you probably know who they are, and look at their page and just see how they’re optimizing their pages for various phrases. If you miss this then it’s basically willful irrelevance. You’re deciding to let other people generate all that demand.

Another way to find out just what your audience is trying to use to find you is to look at your own analytics. There’s a report in your Google Analytics called the queries report. That shows you all the phrases that you’re ranking for now. You might find clues in there. There might be phrases that you’re already ranking for but you just didn’t know it yet. Whatever you choose as your target key phrase, your primary demand generating key phrase, probably that should be the target phrase for your home page, and that means on your home page that phrase would go, and it might just be the name of the business category, like wedding photographers. That would be going to the home page’s title tag, header or H1 at the top of the page, and then several times in the body text. That is the most fundamental way to indicate your relevance and not miss an opportunity to be found by someone who’s looking for you maybe at this very moment. As you’re listening to this podcast, there are people trying to find you. A lot of the people have a little urgency when they go to their websites and make some basic changes to better indicate relevance for that primary commercial intent key phrase.

The reason I asked this, Andy, is because a lot of people, in my opinion, don’t pay attention to this very first part. I believe that to many, it’s a mystery as to how to do this. I’ll give you an example. In fact you gave us a great example already, the wedding photographer not optimizing their page for the word wedding. You would think that a guy who has a wedding photography business and a website would know that, but he doesn’t. What do we do?

There are two parts to the game. The first is to attract the visitor, and that’s like the cheese. The second piece is to get the visitor to take action after they visited, that’s like the mouse trap. It’s the marketer’s job to generate traffic and it’s the web designer’s job to maximize the conversion rate. We can shout it from the rooftops. We’re basically doing that now. We have just implored people in conversations like this to pay basic attention to the simple, “Do it once, it’s fixed forever, said it and forget it,” permanent improvements to their marketing. This is how the internet works. Someone’s trying to find you.

I think the best tip I can give people is to just clear your mind and pretend just even for two minutes that you are your target audience. What do you do? Search. What do you see? Click. What do you see? Is that page helping you? Do you hit the back button? Was this what you were looking for? That’s the gap, it’s the lack of empathy. The fact that people are unable to pretend to be their visitor for even that short time. Once you realize this, it actually gets very simple. We are going to rank for our money phrases by optimizing these.

First of all, you have to target a phrase you have a chance of ranking for. That’s a bigger topic but that’s a conversation about domain authority. Do you have a chance of ranking for that phrase? As long as you do have a chance of ranking for it, just indicate relevance. Now you’ve got the visitor. You’re on page one, people are finding you, they land. Now we have to do a good job of just answering their top questions. What do people want to know? I’ll give you back to the example of wedding photographers. This page, it was called Photos, it didn’t even have the word wedding. Hopefully by the end of the day, they’ll have fixed that piece. The rest of the page was a strange page because it was all about each photographer. Here’s Bob. Here’s Brian. Here’s Tracy. They have a sample of their pictures and a link to their Instagram account. I’m asking the client, “Why would you send people to Instagram?” They said, “We want them to engage more deeply with the photographer. Our theory is that people hire the photographer, not the agency.” I get that, “Do you really want your visitors to leave your website?” I clicked and we landed on Instagram. I asked them, “If I was designing a store for you and I put a big exit sign right there in the checkout aisle, would that be a good idea? Do you want your visitors to leave your website right here?” They quickly realize, “No, this is not aligned with our goals. It doesn’t help us to have people leave our website.”

Once we do have that visitor, our job is to answer the visitor’s top questions, whatever people need to know before they hire you. Supply evidence to support each of those answers we gave them: testimonials, years in business, number of weddings they’ve shot, the case studies or happy stories, the portfolio of amazing photos with different varieties of lighting and settings, and then clear, compelling, simple specific calls to action; answer, evidence, action. That’s why people become a lead. That’s why visitors reach out and ask for help. That’s how websites generate demand and that’s why companies that are good at digital grow. They understand both halves of the equation. They know how to generate demand and traffic from a targeted visitor. They know how to convert that visitor into a lead. They understand Google, they understand human psychology, and the phone just starts ringing and they have to either raise prices or hire a bigger team.

Andy, I’m not sure that what you’re saying is relevant anymore. I wonder if in fact people are skipping the entire process of building a website and going right into ClickFunnels and creating the typical funnels, which seems to be all the rage. How would you address that?

People who say that actually mean different things. Let’s say I’m searching for Chicago wedding photographers, if you want to use that one again, in Google. I’m looking at my search results page now and it has a variety of different things in there. Where is this ClickFunnel? Where does the visitor land? Tell me the story of this visitor’s journey.

ClickFunnels, as you know, builds these landing pages. The bottom line is that I’m building a landing page in ClickFunnels. By the way, I’m not particularly saying that there’s only one way to do it and that’s ClickFunnels. There’s Leadpages. There are all these other products as well. The idea behind them is to get you to take a single action as quickly as possible. 

I’m not against that at all. I don’t know that that is necessarily any different from what I suggested. It doesn’t matter to the visitor necessarily where they landed. Did the page speak to them? Did it answer their questions? Was there evidence to support those answers they gave? Let’s say we build a page in Leadpages. We’ve got a couple of issues to deal with here if that’s our plan. The first is that page has to leave a domain somewhere. The likelihood of it ranking has to do with whether or not that page is on a domain with authority. These things don’t live in a vacuum. A landing page would normally live at something dotwebsite.com. The likelihood of it ranking has everything to do with the authority of that domain.

I ranked number one for Chicago Web Design. I ranked number one for Chicago WordPress Web Design and every other phrase in my industry. This is how we generate so much demand. Would it be possible for me to do that without a website? With some landing pages? It would be impossible because the likelihood of me ranking for those very valuable phrases is a function of how much authority my domain has, OrbitMedia.com. The company that measures this is a proxy for a Google metric, but its domain authority is a scale of 1 to 100. Our site has a domain authority of 70, virtually impossible for any of our competitors to outrank us when you’re that credible. We could never do that without having a large body of work, without having a website and useful content and links from other websites. You simply cannot compete for the big moneys’ super-valuable phrases if all you have is a landing page, because you are neglecting to take into account the primary factor for ranking in Google, which is authority. Your domain has to have enough authority to rank for that phrase relative to the other sites that also rank for that phrase. That’s the competition factor.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining that. For many people, however, they have set up their business to pay for traffic and drive it to an almost anonymous page. The authority of the site can have almost no relative value because all of their incoming traffic is coming from a Facebook campaign or some other form of paid click advertising. 

However you drive traffic, it’s still the same game. Traffic times the conversion rate equals success. I’m doing it with content. There’s a famous quote from Guy Kawasaki. He says, “If you have more budget than brains, do advertising. If you have more brains than budget, do content marketing.” He calls them outbound and inbound. If you’re in a hurry or if you have the budget, if you don’t have any authority, you can simply buy traffic. You can buy traffic in Google. You can buy traffic in Facebook. You can send that traffic to a landing page totally focused on one topic. If that page is a good conversion rate and you monetize that conversion in a way that pays for the visitor you bought, pays for your ad campaign. I’m not at all against advertising, but when people ask me questions, they mostly want to know how to do it without spending money because they’re either broke or they’re looking for the more durable benefits.

YFTC 040 | Marketing with Brains

Marketing with Brains: The problem with advertising is it’s temporary. You stop paying for it, you don’t get any traffic.

The problem with advertising is it’s temporary. You stop paying for it, you don’t get any traffic. When you do content marketing and you win visits through search, through social and through email, those are durable sources of traffic: links, followers and subscribers. We’re at the point where we’re down from our peak a month ago or recently. We were at 97,000 just recently; 97,000 visitors in a month with no ads spent. It’s an accumulation. The benefits in content marketing keep building and they’re durable and they accrue on top of each other at interests. It’s like making money from interest payments at most. It just keeps building on itself. Advertising is inherently temporary. The day you stop paying for it, you would typically lose all the traffic from that channel.

Let’s take the case of many people who have a blog and have published an article every week for the last 50 weeks and still are not getting much in the way of visitors where they do now have content that is probably not necessarily optimized. What could they do with that existing blog to change the picture for them?

There are different ways to answer this. I’ll start with a fun way. It’s getting to be summer here and we have a garden at my place. I have a plant that’s growing so slowly and a friend who’s a botanist. He said, “It’s a grape.” I said, “It’s supposed to be climbing up this trellis. It’s really going slow.” He said, “No. In year one, they’re sleeping. In year two, they’re creeping. In year three, they’re leaping.” I go, “That really helps. I’m thinking about content that way too.” Content marketing is inherently slow. Advertising is fast and temporary. Content marketing is slow but durable. The practical tip though is to consider this. If you have a post that either through design or accidentally, is ranking for a phrase, and this again would be evident in your queries report under acquisitions, search console queries in Google Analytics. If you look at that report and you find that you have something that’s ranking but not ranking that well, it might be worth much more, you might get a lot more juice for the squeeze if you go back and improve that old piece of content than make a new one.

I think people just keep blogging and they’re told to just keep blogging and they rev the HubSpot blog and they just know that they’re supposed to produce some content and something will hit eventually. I’m not sure that works that well. What I spend a lot more time and I’m doing than I did before is going back, finding something that’s ranking at the bottom of page one or the top of page two, and trying to make it a better piece. All Google does is try to find the best page on the internet for any topic. It’s looking for quality. I just try to make it a higher quality article. These older things that I’m going back and updating or these pieces that were okay and getting traction but I could make better, I’m going much deeper adding a lot more examples, more evidence, more details, pictures, videos, diagrams, bullet lists, sub-headers and internal links. Really trying to make each of these the best page on the internet for that topic, going really deep, and then I watch that thing. Usually what happens is it goes from top of page two to the bottom of page one, to the middle of page one. I keep it in heavy rotation in social media. I might promote it again through another email. These things are maybe two years old and no one seems to notice that I’m just updating it. I never change the domain, never change the URL. The URL you want to keep the same because if it has authority, if other people have a link to it, you don’t want to break those links to it. Then improve the old stuff.

I recommend taking dates if your content strategy is to teach important stuff and it’s evergreen and these things are not time-bound, you’re not publishing news. Remove the dates from your blog so that your stuff doesn’t look as old as fast. Then go back and just start improving older things, especially things that are almost ranking high. You’ll probably get much better results much faster by making a smaller number of things really, really great than publishing another medium quality blog post. The internet is not waiting for another medium quality blog post. We should be working really hard to make a few things really, really good because the best things get so much more, exponentially more visibility. If you even have a couple of posts that rank at top of page one for some valuable phrases, you’ll see they’re just monsters of traffic like they’re magnets for attention. We want to create a couple more of those. I think the tactic for that is really maybe more about updating old stuff than writing another thing.

I think that relates to just about everybody who’s listening today. Let’s update our old stuff. Let’s take a look at what we’ve done. I know I’m going to go back now after this call and take a look at my old stuff. In fact, Andy, I’m going to put a challenge out to you. What would you think about going to one of my websites? I don’t care if it’s good or bad, you just dish it out. Tell me what you think. 

Sure.

We’re going to be going to my first website which is MyPowerTribe.com. That’s focused on my certification business. Andy, tell me what you think.

It looks like there’s an auto-play video there. I’ll give you the feedback without having watched that video. I will say first that although it’s violating best practices to play something by default, that may be overwritten by the utility or value or clarity of this video. If it’s a strong video, your visitors will get value from it. That’s going to dominate my attention and I’m going to be looking at that video more than I see anything else in the page because here’s the visual hierarchy. Movement is more powerful than images, and images are more powerful than text. On the visual hierarchy, this video is going to be super powerful.

Having said that, there are a lot of things that are competing for my attention at this scroll depth; I’m at the top of the homepage. There are two columns. There’s a header at the top with the orange button. There’s a black bar that has navigation. There’s a headline above that is right under the two lines. Then there goes the two columns with the video on the left and the answers on the right. I would actually consider being more deliberate about guiding my attention as a visitor by maybe moving some of these things out of the top of the page and maybe making this a taller page so there’s fewer things competing for my attention right here. It’s busy. There are many things that are fighting for my attention, including headlines and color and columns and logos. Simplify would be my first piece of advice, and that’s really true for many sites.

If you want someone to look at something, move away and create a white space around it. Don’t make something bigger and louder and more colorful. This is really important. This is key. This is a main takeaway. Our job is to guide our visitor’s attention through a series of messages that guide them through a series of thoughts. To do that, we want to control their eye movements so that they’re seeing just certain things in certain order. This page here has too many things that are of equal visual prominence that you did not create a clear flow for me and my eye.

Having said that, some of the things that are competing for my attention besides the movement are logos: There’s the Entrepreneur on Fire logo, Infusionsoft, Salesforce, Microsoft and Leadpages. Those are actually very powerful because they are adding credibility. The use of imagery for credibility is done well here, Mitch. I like seeing that. As I scroll down the page, our job will be to answer the visitor’s top questions, and for that without knowing this audience, I’ll ask you. What are the two or three things that this visitor must know about or have answered before they will take action and apply for this certification program?

I think the first thing most people would want to know is whether or not it would apply to them. 

How can we answer that question?

By showing them an example of somebody who did it and how it applied exactly to their business.

That is the goal then. That should be the top of the visual hierarchy. Is that the content of the rest of this video?

Yes. The content of the video describes the process. It’s a process and it describes the business opportunity. Most people don’t realize that by using certification, they can typically generate between $100,000 and $300,000 in new revenue per quarter and they don’t need a new product to do it. That’s what certification is about.

Further down this page, I begin to see more of that. There is another video. It appears to be a video testimonial?

Yes.

That is a video that won’t play by default. To get that to play, we have to click to play. To increase the percentage of visitors who play it, you could add a headline into the custom thumbnail for this video. Something maybe a really powerful quote that this person had said. If you upload a custom thumbnail to the video, which is apparently hosted on YouTube, you can increase the percentage of people who will watch this, which will increase the percentage of people who see that as a powerful bit of evidence you told as the most important. From there, it would follow the increase of percentage of people who apply. That may increase the views on this video.

The faces, I love these. There are some strong testimonials down here at the bottom. Mitch, I might consider moving some of those up or spreading those throughout. You piled up the evidence at the bottom instead of mixing in answers and evidence throughout. It’s like a Jedi mind trick. They have a question, we know when that question pops into their mind, we answer it right in that moment, then we add evidence to support that answer, and then do it again and again and again down the page. Where you have these testimonials, for example, in a row, Tony Robbins, Laura Doyle, I would recommend maybe making these instead of a three-column layout, make each one its own row and just building this page up, answer every question, supply evidence to support every answer you give, address every objection, more evidence, more calls to action.

At the bottom it says, “Are you ready to create a seven-figure client certification program? Apply now.” You could consider actually trying a different text in that button. “Apply Now,” in a way “Now” indicates immediate benefit. “Apply” could create the perception of exclusivity because it’s not for everyone, you don’t necessarily qualify. It feels like a high-level of commitment. There’s a bit of a cognitive load on that. When I click on “Apply Now” it landed on a page that says there’s a free strategy session. There’s a bit of a gap between what I thought I was getting and what the page seemed to offer. If really what I’m going to do after clicking “Apply Now” is to sign up for a free strategy session, maybe there’s a different call to action that might increase the percentage of people who clicked. That would certainly be worth testing.

These are fantastic comments. What I love about what you said is that almost everybody listening who has a website can now look at their own page and take some of the big takeaways here and apply it to themselves. 

YFTC 040 | Marketing with Brains

Marketing with Brains: It’s not expensive to do these things, to move your content around or to add evidence.

It’s not expensive to do these things, to move your content around or to add evidence. Something you and I both chatted about is if you have a page called Testimonials, your visitors may not even be seeing that page. It doesn’t cost anything. Just to take the best stuff from that page and make it appear on other pages on your site. Sprinkle your strongest evidence like testimonials throughout the site. It can make a big difference. We have to think about this as mind control. Pretend that the page is emulating a sales conversation. Put in the support right where it’s needed most and really guide them through a series of thoughts and then give them a clear specific call to action that indicates the benefit. That’s the basics for a content approach to conversion rate optimization.

Andy, this has been probably one of the most powerful conversations I’ve ever had about SEO and about the use of content marketing to drive traffic. I want to thank you for that, first of all.

My pleasure. This is a fun conversation. I like where this has gone. You did something that takes courage that I’ve never seen anyone do before. We tackled a visual challenge in an audio format, which I probably worked okay. Also, to expose yourself to direct feedback by looking at the page in real time. Mitch, this was fun.

I think it’s instructive. First of all, it will help me individually because I know I can now improve my page. I think we’re all in the same boat. I think everybody listening to the show today can improve their own website by using the ideas that you so freely distributed here on the show today. Your discussion about sequencing, your discussion about the ninja mind control, about understanding the fact that we’re really having a conversation with somebody, as opposed to just dumping a whole ton of crap on their head hoping that they’ll dig their way through it and reach the buy button. That’s super important stuff. 

I like that. I never really emphasized that, but hearing you say it, that’s it. We’re having a conversation. We don’t want to shout. We don’t want to say 25 things at once. We want to guide them through a conversation based on who we know that they are, based on what they need to hear, plus what we want them to hear. That is a way to guide them and move them along. I think that somehow you and I just in this short time hit on many of the things that I know to be the most impactful fundamental website changes that can increase both traffic and the conversion rate.

I’m really glad we did this today, Andy. I know that a lot of listeners are going to be interested in you and what you do. If somebody wanted to reach out to you and find out more about what you do, what’s the best way for them to do that? 

OrbitMedia.com is where the blog lives. I write an article there every two weeks and the newsletter’s biweekly. That’s how most people keep up with what we’re thinking. I have a podcast as well. It’s not at your level, Mitch, but we’re proud of it. It’s called Content Matters. The book, Content Chemistry, is on Amazon or wherever you find books. LinkedIn is probably my best network if people want to connect with me there. Anyone is welcome to connect on any topic anytime.

Andy, you had dropped some very cool articles on to my desktop here. I want to ask you, are you okay with me sharing some of these and could you tell us just a little bit about the article that you sent me, which is called How to Increase Your Conversion Rate?

It’s a more visual way to go through the same framework we just discussed: question, answer, evidence, action. It has lots of examples. It’s a step by step approach. It’s a long article but it’s easy to scan. If you heard this podcast, you’ll probably just be able to quickly internalize the concepts just by glancing through it. Of course, you’re welcome to share that. I’ve learned a long time ago that content marketing is a test of generosity. The people who give away the most helpful and useful stuff are the ones who get the greatest benefits from it. I work hard to share all my best advice to anyone who’s interested.

Andy, this has been a great interview today. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you. I know that our listeners are going to appreciate having you on the show today. Listeners, please share this show with others who you think could benefit from better understanding how to create enormous website traffic from their content. Thank you, Andy. We’ll talk again soon. 

My pleasure. Thank you.

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