Steve Gordon is the founder of The Unstoppable CEO and author of Unstoppable Referrals: 10x Referrals Half the Effort. Steve uses his business to help professionals gain more referrals in less time, allowing them to spend minimal time working on growing their business and more time running their business, allowing them the time to nurture personal relationships. Steve encourages entrepreneurs to share their stories with one another in order to identify the traits and character behind every hard-working business professional.

Steve Gordon on Choosing Your Persistence

Another great guest is about to join us here in our virtual studio. This particular person is someone I’ve been waiting to interview for quite a while. He is unstoppable in everything he does. In fact, he even wrote a book called Unstoppable Referrals. Just to prove how unstoppable he is, he actually built an engineering consulting firm to over $3 million in revenue and then guess what happened? 2008 came along and the company, like the rest of the economy, tanked. That didn’t stop him. He went on to build his own company and now, seven years later, Steve Gordon is the CEO of The Unstoppable CEO company. Welcome, Steve Gordon, to the show.

Mitch, great to be here. Sorry to keep you waiting so long. I’m glad we’re finally having this conversation. It’s going to be fun.

The thing about it is that I love to interview my friends. You’re one of my friends and you’re one of the people that your book I’ve read and I follow you and we even work together on a particular client, which has just been fantastic. Here’s the thing that I know about you that is so obvious, is that you are a levelheaded guy. You have an engineering mind like mine. You see things in a very logical way and I love the way you communicate. We’ve been on meetings together and I love how you can throw your hands up and stop the confusion and get right to the point.

Your book is exactly the same way. When I read your book and I started to see the fact that you had literally created a formula to generate referrals, I thought, “This is so easy. This is brilliant.” I integrated much of what you wrote into my processes now. That’s why I’m so focused on getting referrals and testimonials. Thanks for writing that book.

Thank you for all the nice words and I’m glad it’s helping you.

Let’s go back in time, Steve. You really did live through a crazy time. Engineering firms back then, anything to do with building or almost every part of the economy came to a halt around 2008 when the stock market reversed in a very dramatic way and put everybody on edge. What was going on in your world when that happened?

I’ll never forget. We were actually moving into a new office. Our firm had three offices at the time across Florida. The office here in Tallahassee, the state capital where I live, we were relocating the office and was driving back and forth. We had movers moving things but I was shuttling some things over with some of the staff. On the radio, they were talking about Lehman Brothers and that was the day that Lehman Brothers was collapsing. That turns out to have been a pretty important day in my life. We had been beaten up a little bit because about a little over half of our business was with companies that did land development, built houses primarily in Southeast Florida and that had all stopped. About 90% of our clients had gone out of business over the course of about six or eight months.

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Choosing Your Persistence: Everything basically stopped within the course of about six to nine months. It was a challenging time.

There is no preparation for that. I thought, “We’re okay. We trimmed the sails. We could survive about 70% of our business rather than going away.” About half of our business was tied up in state government contracts. Little did I know that what I had heard on the news that day was going to turn around and be pretty important because if you remember, Lehman Brothers was involved in the bond market. The bond markets in the country collapsed. Our hedge, which were these government contracts, happened to be all funded by bonds. Even though the State of Florida still had good credit, there was no functioning market for them to issue bonds and to finance projects and things like that.

Everything basically stopped within the course of about six to nine months. It was a challenging time. Hopefully, I never have to go back to that. I’m certainly thankful that I’ve experienced it and have that education.

They call those things a black swan event. We’ve had several black swan events in our lifetime, Steve. Obviously, 9/11 was a form of a black swan event. The 2008 crash was one as well. In my mind, these types of events seem to be happening almost more and more regularly. Things like the violence that goes on because of terrorism. Three, four, five, seven years ago, we hardly ever heard of such a thing, and now it seems like it’s an everyday occurrence.

The world is changing rapidly. The word ‘disruption’ is thrown around a lot these days in business. I think we’re going through, I don’t know that historians will ultimately call it the industrial revolution, but something akin to what the industrial revolution did 150 years ago. We’re going through that transition in society. I think you’re seeing that affect us at all kinds of levels and I believe that’s what creates a lot of those black swan events that we’re seeing right now because the change is happening more rapidly than our institutions and our systems can keep up with.

Violent change creates amazing opportunities at the same time, right?

Without a doubt.

Let’s take a look at what happened because I think yours is a good prototype. You were back in the situation in 2008 and what happened is, relatively quickly, you were at a business and even though you might say that wasn’t an instant occurrence, it was much faster than I’m sure you were interested in having to experience. You said you were prepared, you had trimmed the sails. What is the lesson here? What did you do? What would you do today under the same circumstances? What advice would you give to people who are maybe right now flying high, hoping that they can slip through the next one?

Believe me, I’ve spent a lot of sleepless nights examining what went well and what didn’t. Thankfully, we were lucky. For the most part, we were able to exit the business cleanly and move on with lives. There were a lot of businesses in our industry that were hit much, much harder. When you come across that kind of rapid change, I don’t know that there’s anything that you can do about it. The prevention for that occurrence really had to have happened five or ten years earlier. In that business, we made a really strategic decision that we thought was a good one at the time.

A number of years before that, we were 100% in that land development market. All of our clients were in there. We had made this decision to, “Let’s diversify”. We got to the point where we were about half and half, where we had public sector work and private sector work. In that industry, the approach is you want to get some balance like that. The fundamental mistake, as I look back on it, that I made was not tracing all the money back, because all of that money ultimately came back in one way or another to being based in real estate, the way that the bonds were floated and funded. A lot of that came back to property tax revenue which got massively disrupted in that whole time.

The source was the same and I never thought about it that way. It’s important to diversify revenue streams and look at it at a macro level, not only at the micro level. I’ve got 5 or 10 or 20 different places that money is coming from, none of them dominant. Also look at it at the macro level. What’s the ultimate source of all that money? If it’s all coming from one industry even though you’ve got 100 clients, you might be in trouble.

That was the formula that I had subscribed to as a salesperson. When I was younger, before I started my software company, I was selling semiconductors to some of the largest clients here in New England. Wang computer, of which most people had never heard of, back then was one of the largest manufacturers of desktop word processors. A word processor was basically a computer dedicated to only doing one thing, which was writing. My main account, one of my biggest clients, Wang, had all of a sudden, out of the blue, shut their shipping docks and would not accept any shipments from my vendors.

I was very lucky, I had worked really, really hard to build my account base. It had gone from almost zero to $34,000 a month in commission. As a kid, and I was a kid earning that kind of money, I was so financially naïve I didn’t even know what to do with it. I would pile it up into these savings banks and I would segregate them by 100,000 amounts so that I didn’t violate the insurance law. I really, at that point, went from $34,000 a month to almost $0 a month less than 60 days later.

You’re right, you can’t prepare for some of these things but when they happen, you need the mindset to react. You must have had that mindset. You obviously knew what you needed to do. No, it wasn’t fun and, yes, it was stressful and all those things, but you did it and you made it through. You made it through whole, which is not the same as many others.

The opportunity for us that it presented was reinvention and for me, personally, was reinvention. Every time there’s great calamity, there’s also great opportunity created and you’ve got to look for it. You’ve got to find it. Sometimes that just is a matter of pushing through. I have a quote on my wall from President Calvin Coolidge and it’s a lengthy quote but the point of it is that there’s really only one solution to any challenge that you face. The one solution is persistence, that there are all kinds of examples of really brilliant people who have failed tremendously at life, all kinds of examples of really high-stationed people who were maybe born into prominence who have failed at life. He goes on and on and lists these different categories of people that you would think would be at advantage in these situations. Basically, he says, now look, there are tons of examples of that kind of person that they failed. The only thing that is guaranteed to get you through is persistence.

I’m going to challenge you a little bit on that and maybe let’s think about this together. I’m going to give you a situation that’s a real life situation. It happened probably fifteen or so years ago. I had a friend who had invented a new type of bicycle drive mechanism called cable drive. He was featured on television shows all over the country. He was contacted by people who wanted to buy his bicycles. He got funded and built a bicycle company on this cable drive idea. The company went out of business, so then he went to some of the major bicycle companies and tried to get it licensed but nobody would license it.

What he did is he took his remaining inventory and he started trying to sell it the best that he could, as quickly as he could and it wasn’t selling. You might say that this guy was certainly persistent. He got to the point where his wife left him and took their family with them because he would not pivot in the face of what was to everybody obvious failure. How do we know when the right time to not be persistent is versus the time when we must push through in order to make the right things happen?

I look at that a little bit differently. The answer is still persistence, the question is what are you going to persist at. I think that’s really critical. In that particular situation, are you going to persist at being a husband and a father, or are you going to persist at selling these things that you’ve created? That’s a choice. Sometimes those choices are difficult. I don’t know that there’s any cut-and-dried answer that we could come up with here that would be applicable in all situations. There’s a lot of judgment that goes into that.

We could have persisted with that first business but it became very clear that that wasn’t going to be a successful route for us. I had a conversation not too long after all of that had happened, with a lady named Lee Milteer who does a lot of consulting and coaching around high performance. She had made this statement on a call that you have to own your outcomes, be responsible for your outcomes. I was sitting there at the time owning a pretty crappy outcome. I called her assistant, ultimately was able to track down her cell phone, got her cell phone and I said, “What the hell does own your outcomes mean when this is my outcome that I own? I’m certainly happy to be responsible for it but I’m not improving it any from here, I can tell you that.” We had a really great conversation. What I learned out of that conversation was you got to define the outcomes that you want and that’s what you own.

There are a lot of people listening to this show who may still be working at jobs and who are trying to start something at night, the true entrepreneurs who work half-days.

Half-day, at least twelve hours, that’s a half day. If you’re working eight hours at a job, you know you got at least a good four hours at night where you can go home and work on your business. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of our listeners are somewhere in that camp. They’re either still working and working on their new business at home at night, or they’re just getting started and not quite to the point where they have 1,000 clients yet. This conversation is important to me and I’m sure it’s important to people listening because when do you know what to do in the face of these types of traumatic events?

I want to say that the hint you gave was to decide what you’re going to be persistent at. If you’re going to be persistent at building your business but your current idea isn’t working and you’ve tested it over and over again, and you’ve tried it three or four different ways and you know it’s not going to work, then that persistence is the desire to be in business and attain the freedom that a business brings. I think that’s a great kind of persistence, don’t you, Steve?

Absolutely, I think that’s really what it’s all about. Methods may change, your thinking on a particular thing may change but the thing that you need to start with is a really clear vision about what you want life to be like. Businesses are created for really two reasons. The first reason is typically to create some form of lifestyle to serve the person that’s creating it. The second reason is to create some change in the lives of others. Typically, you’re marrying the two of those inside the business. If you get really clear about what those two changes are, it really doesn’t matter what format it takes after that.

That’s a great point. When I started Timeslips Corporation, I had cleared the deck. What I mean by cleared the deck is that I was dating a young lady at the time and I basically told her that I wouldn’t have time for her anymore. I had been part of several other social groups of which I described as I had to leave because, again, I had no more time. I dedicated myself at the time to working seven days a week. I did that for seven months straight and my partner did, too. We didn’t have a lot of cash to spend. It was going to have to be what they call sweat equity. We were willing to put the time in. We were willing to do what it takes to make it happen. After seven months, we said, “We should take a day off.” The funny thing is, is that we didn’t know what to do with ourselves on our day off, so we want back to work. Clearly, persistence has its downside as well.

I want to get back on the path here because you did something, you pivoted, you reinvented yourself and you created a fantastic new company that does incredible work for clients all over the world. Here’s the thing I want to dig in a little bit now. You wrote this book, Unstoppable Referrals, and the claim on the cover is that you say that by reading this book, you can attain ten times the referrals that you’re currently getting, with half the effort. Could you explain that, please?

I’ve discovered since writing the book that that was actually a pretty easy claim to make because most people aren’t getting that many referrals. I didn’t realize quite how bad the problem was until I wrote it and we started hearing stories from people. Really where the book came from was a little bit out of frustration. As I was starting this business, I had gone and done a whole series of workshops and the businesses that I was targeting were really interested in referral and a lot of them were types of businesses that wouldn’t do really, really well online, really high trust businesses like attorneys that are going to handle your will and your estate, financial advisors who you’re going to turn your life savings over to, people like that.

They all knew that referrals were really important to them but none of them were really having all the success with it. They’d get some here and there but nothing consistent, nothing predictable. I said, “I’m going to go do a whole series of workshops on that topic.” Over about twelve weeks, we did these workshops, we had about 300 business owners come through the workshops and I had done my research going into it. I had found every idea on generating referrals and basically, we shared the best of those ideas with them. It was the conventional wisdom on referrals.

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Choosing Your Persistence: Unstoppable Referrals

It was great, people loved it. They walked out and gave us really high reviews and everything on the workshops. I thought, “This is fun. We’ll do this again soon.” About six months later, I went and met with close to 20 of these attendees to find out what’s happened. I was hoping to get some really great testimonials for our next round of workshops. I got to tell you, it was the most frustrating and disappointing set of conversations I think I’ve ever had, because none of them had done anything. Not one out of the 20.

I’m asking them like, “You were so fired up leaving the workshop. You thought this was the greatest thing ever. What happened? Did you try and it did not work? Where’s the problem here?” The technical brain started ticking into gear like there’s a break in the system I got to go figure out. What I realized in those conversations was that it didn’t matter if they logically understood, that if they did the things we talked about. The conventional wisdom on referrals, if you read most of the books, it basically boils down to two things. You need to ask a lot more often, so ask every client you’ve got every time you interact with them. Ask more often. Once you ask and they give you a name, you need to follow-up with that person for a really long time.

That’s the conventional wisdom. The problem with that is in that first step, and it’s not that it doesn’t work, it works perfectly well, but nobody wants to do that first step. They don’t want to ask because it makes them feel uncomfortable because in that relationship, that referral relationship which is really a three-party relationship. You’ve got you, the person that wants the referral, you’ve got the client of yours or the referral partner of yours that you hope will refer you, and then you’ve got this poor, unsuspecting prospect out there who doesn’t know that they’re about to get referred.

If your client makes a referral, what’s going to happen? You’re going to have a meeting, most likely. What do you call that meeting?

Prospect meeting.

No, we call it a sales meeting. You’re going to sell that prospect something. You sell stuff for a living, Mitch. I sell stuff for a living. I don’t like going into a sales meeting unless I’m the one doing the selling. Nobody wants to go that meeting and everybody knows that that’s what’s going to happen. Your client, who you want to refer you, knows that you’re going to try and sell something to somebody that they care about. They are understandably a little apprehensive about that unless they really, really know that that person needs what you’re selling and it’s going to be a tremendous benefit to them.

Truthfully, most of our clients don’t know the people in their world well enough to make that decision. If they do, there’s still nothing but downside in that act of referral because they might get a nice gift basket from you if everything goes well out of that referral, at Christmas time but even if the slightest thing goes wrong, they risk damaging a really valuable relationship. Everybody knows that and that makes the whole process really uncomfortable.

When I figured that out, that that was really the block, that’s when I got excited. I’m like, “Let’s figure out how we can take that away.” I’d been a student of direct response marketing. In direct response marketing, there’s this process that we call two-step lead generation. The idea is you take something that is a really easy step for someone to take. There’s almost no risk involved. It’s really actually valuable to them because you’re likely going to share with them some information that would really help them.

You do that as a first step. Instead of going into the scary sales meeting, we take some really useful information about a problem that prospect is likely experiencing and we go to our client, we go to our referral partner and say, “Look, I’m on a mission to help people solve this particular problem. This is the type of person I’m trying to help. I know you know these people. Let’s sit down. Let’s brainstorm together who as a pair, you, Mr. Client, and me, who can we figure out that you know that we can help with this information? There’s no strings attached. If they do business with us, great. If they don’t and this helps them, that’s great too. Either way, we’re happy. We want to help people. We’ve come up with a really easy way to do it.”

By taking that process and applying it to the referral situation, we found that it almost instantly resulted in all of these referrals coming to our clients as we were teaching them how to do this. That’s where that claim comes from because we see it happen. Sometimes they’ll go out and go through the process. The very first conversation they with a client, the client is excited to help them. The client probably wanted to help them before but it was just too difficult. There was too much pressure. It’s a long story but that’s where the claim comes from.

It makes a lot of sense. There’s an entire process in place here that I highly encourage people to read about in the book and follow. I’m going to explain to you a little bit about how I applied your formula because we never spoke about it and it might be of value. One of the things I do now is I put into my contracts when I sign a contract with somebody, I actually say in my contract that if it’s okay with you, I would like to document our work together and share it with others who potentially could benefit from learning what we’ve done together.

Everybody says yes. Nobody ever says no. When the engagement is over, in most cases, I do two things. I also, in that same contract, ask people, I said, “If you’re thrilled with the work we do together, would you mind telling me who else might benefit from the type of work that we’ve done?” This way, what I’ve done is I’ve set up the scenario in advance, as they sign their contract with me, to know that I care so much about what we’re doing together that I’m willing to document it and share it as an example. They are proud to be part of that in almost every case.

It’s cool because what it does is it relies on their, you might call it vanity or you might call it pride, to basically be highlighted or become the focus of a research report and love, at that point, to share it with the people that they know because after all, it talks only in the best possible terms about them. That’s what I do.

That’s brilliant. It’s about their success. They have a vested interest in sharing it. I think that’s an excellent adaptation of the process. How is it working?

It works every time. For me at this point, it’s not a matter of do I ask or do I not ask. It’s just built into the contract. I’ve had one person say, “What happens if I don’t want to give you a referral or I don’t want to give you a testimonial?” I said, “You’re not obligated to do it. It’s only so that I can take the work we’ve done together and make you more prominent in your industry and show the people the incredible work that you’ve been able to accomplish with my help.” “That makes a lot of sense.” I position it entirely for their benefit. That’s how I do it.

That’s really key. I think that’s key in anything that you do. A lot of what I talk about in the book really just boils down to getting alignment. If you can get alignment of your interests with the interests of whomever you’re dealing with, your life is easy at that point because everybody is working towards the same thing. All that generally requires is a little bit of understanding of where somebody really wants to go and how you can align with that. You’ve done that. That’s clear in your process that you’ve aligned with that self-promotional interest of your clients. I think that’s brilliant.

You have a tagline that says “The leadership journal for growing firms”. I want to tell you, that really resonates with me because I think people respect you when you take the lead in working towards making sure that people are satisfied with the work you do. It’s not like, “I’ll give you your money back and here’s a money back guarantee.” No, you are taking the lead and already promising to basically highlight the work that you do. That is a super important position. It’s really the preeminent position, and I borrowed Jay Abraham’s term for that, because if you come from a place of preeminence always, then you can never be questioned about your intentions. I think your book and your processes completely support that theory from top to bottom.

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Choosing Your Persistence: Strategy of Preeminence

For those who are listening, they need to go Google the Strategy of Preeminence with Jay Abraham. He’s got videos where he explains it. They’re on YouTube, they’re everywhere when you Google it. Outstanding videos.

It’s interesting, when I came across his concept that I also already been working with, with the concept but phrased a little bit differently. I have a really good friend and client who’s been a client since the beginning of this business, a guy named John Curry. John has this phrase that he uses called purity of intent. This guy is in the top 2%, 3%, 4% of life insurance salesman in the country and has been pretty consistently for 35 years. He knows a thing or two about having difficult conversations with prospects.

One of the things I’ve learned from him, and he and I have become really good friends over the years, is he’s got this way of forcefully challenging a prospect when they’re not being honest with themselves but doing it in a way where you couldn’t love the guy any more. We were having breakfast one morning, he’s relaying a story of when he’s done this and I said, “You just have this uncanny ability to do this. How do you do it?” He said, “I always come from a place where I don’t care if we do business. I care 100% about the person across the table from me and then doing what is right for themselves and for their families financially.” That’s what he does.

He said, “That’s my only concern. If we do business, great. If we don’t do business, so long as this person goes and takes care of the challenge that they’ve got, I don’t care. They can go do it with somebody else. I just want them to be so well-informed and motivated to fix this problem.” He said, “I call that purity of intent.” I’ve adopted that. I use it now with our own clients. I think it’s a really powerful place to come from. If you’re coming from that spot, it is hard for anybody to question your motives.

I use something that is in the same realm of that but slightly different. Here’s the way I look at it and this is what I tell my clients or I tell my prospects when I’m working with them. If I sit down with somebody and I do an analysis of their business and I know for certain that not only can I help them a lot but it would be imperative that they work with me, then at that moment in time, a switch flips in my mind and I know that I have a moral obligation to get them to do business with me not for my purposes, for theirs.

If I’m talking to a company that is doing okay but they have the potential to do a lot better, and they have 50 or 70 employees, then in my mind, I have a moral obligation to help the CEO help every one of those employees have a prosperous company to work at. That has helped me overcome whatever reluctance I’ve ever had if I know that the exact situation is in place where I truly can deliver the benefit that I promise. That’s my way of thinking about it.

What I love about this is I think we’re looking at the same thing from a number of different perspectives and I think it adds to it. Thanks for sharing that. I think that’s really, really valuable.

I learned that from Chet. Chet was just the master at reframing things and making sure that people understood. In fact, that’s how we trained our salespeople. We used to say to our salespeople, “If you don’t believe in this product enough to know for certain that it’s going to help the person you’re speaking with, then you shouldn’t be working here. It’s that moral obligation that you must commit to if you are going to make sure that you benefit the prospect by getting our program into their hands.”

Chet was just great at the way he reframed things and the way he made sense of these systems or these moments in time when you might have had doubt. Beginning salespeople who would adapt this would notice that their sales would go up very regularly and very quickly. It’s a great concept and I’m glad you brought it up

Steve, we’re at a point in the interview where I have some questions that I just love to ask the people I speak with on their show because I think the answers reveal a little bit about what their values are and who they are. Let me ask you some of these questions and see where we end up. Is that okay?

That’s great.

Let’s go back and give you the opportunity to do something that you probably have never had the opportunity to do before, and answer this question: Who, in all of space and time, would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch or an intense conversation with?

I think that’s fairly easy. I think if I could go back and have a conversation with anyone, I think it would be Christ. If you want to go back to the source of wisdom, might as well go all the way back.

Can’t argue with that, great. You’re the second person of my 40-plus interviews so far to name Christ. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten Steve Jobs as an answer. By the way, Steve would be one of my top people, too.

I wouldn’t mind having a conversation with him but there are some things that I know he didn’t even know.

I think Christ might have had a leg up on Steve, maybe. That’s a great answer. Thanks for that. The other thing I wanted to ask about is your passion. We could do what we do and we can enjoy our lives but deep down inside, I believe all of us have a passion. Until that passion is fully expressed, I think there’s a part of us that never truly rests no matter how old we get to be. What I would like to ask you, and this is the ‘change the world’ question, what is it that you are doing or would like to do that truly has the potential to literally change the world?

Again, for me, that’s an easy answer. We primarily serve what we call professional services firms. Sometimes that means someone as small as a solo freelancer maybe in one of the traditional professions like law or medicine or accounting or something like that. Often, it also means people who are in some of the more creative professions like web designers and photographers and folks like that. From that size all the way up to what I would consider a large professional service firm, which might have 30 or 40 employees and several partners.

Those are the types of people that we work with. We work with them very intentionally because I grew up in that kind of business. My dad is an accountant, he actually just signed the papers to sell his firm. He’s been doing that for my entire life and I grew up inside his firm and all the different things that you go through in a business when you’ve had a business for that many decades. I was the little kid that was roaming around dad’s office, playing on the weekends because dad was in there doing what he needed to do and working hard.

When I came out and ran my first business, became a CEO of that company, I didn’t know a thing about how to get clients and how to grow a business. It was really baptism by fire. I realized I was not the only one, that there are an awful lot of us who go get educated on something else, something that’s very valuable to the world and then we have to go run a business and make a living. That part gets left out of our education.

That’s really the mission that I’m on is to take those kids who are roaming around their dad’s office on the weekends, because that’s what dad needs to do or that’s what mom needs to do, and give them their mom or their dad back and help that professional create systems and processes that create new clients without them having to pull their hair out and work all the time.

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Choosing Your Persistence: That’s really the mission; help that professional create systems and processes that create new clients without them having to pull their hair out and work all the time.

You’re just like me, what I call second-party enablement. I believe that I, too, will change the world by working through others who can have an effect on many others besides myself. We’re totally aligned in our mission, Steve, and it’s so great to hear that. It has been a great experience for me. I’m so glad we had this chance to talk.

Before we go, if people want to contact you or if people want to find out more about what you do, how could they do that?

The best place to go is just go to our website. It’s UnstoppableCeo.net. You can go there and if you’re in a situation where you’ve got a new business or you’ve maybe had a business for a little while and you’re looking for ways to increase the number of referrals you’re getting, increase the number of clients you’re getting, we’ve got a bunch of free stuff there that you can take advantage of. That’s probably the best place to start.

You mentioned my book earlier. It’s available on Amazon. You can just search for my name, Steve Gordon, or Unstoppable Referrals, and you can find it there. If you go get it, definitely drop me a line, let me know what you think. Let me know if you’ve implemented anything from it. I certainly love to get questions from readers and answer them all the time, so definitely do reach out.

Listeners, that’s an amazing invitation. Go get that book, study the book and you get to ask the author direct questions about what you just read and share your experience with him. Steve, it’s been such a pleasure having you here. I’m so glad you made the time for me. I really know that many people have been taking notes and benefiting from the time we’ve spent. Once again, thank you and we will talk again soon.

Thanks so much, Mitch.

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