Steve is an entrepreneur, creator & founder of The Reinvention Workshop as well as the author of “What is Your What?” He teaches and trains people on how to reinvent themselves. He is also runs the Reinvention Radio Podcast.
Steve Olsher Says Find Your ‘WHAT?’ And Reinventing Yourself
We have another amazing guest. I’m going to introduce you to a gentleman who 25 years ago founded Liquor.com. It wasn’t just the fact that he bought you a URL. It was what he did later, how he developed himself, how he gained influence in the world, and the amazing books and programs he’s created. I’m proud to announce that we’re talking to Mr. Steve Olsher. Welcome to the show, Steve.
Thanks for having me.
It’s great to talk to you because I’ve known your fame follows you. I’ve known about your stuff for a long time. We’ve met here and there in hallways but we’ve never had a chance to really talk. I’m thrilled that we got a chance to do that here. What I like to do when we start a show episode is I like to go back in time. I like to figure out, or help you help me figure out, what really were the keys to success in the beginning for you. What challenge did you face? How did you overcome them?
On one hand, I’m actually getting smarter as I get older here. On the other hand, I’m not really sure that’s the case. I’m not really a spiritual guy necessarily but if you look at it from more of that spiritual side of the equation, I do think everything happens for a reason. We are where we are right now because this is exactly where we’re supposed to be. We could jump into trials and tribulations and the brain damage that I’ve had to endure over all of these years, the things that went well and the things that didn’t, but it boils down to recognizing pretty early on. It just goes back to a story. When I was nineteen, I was thinking about opening up my own nightclub. I had been deejaying for a number of years and I had thought it would be a good idea, but I was too young to open an alcohol club so it would have to be a non-alcoholic club. We thought that made sense because me and my buddies were talking about it and there was not much for the teenagers to do in the area where we lived and the bars had to close fairly early. We catered to those eighteen and over after a certain hour. We could stay open as late as we wanted.
The idea certainly sounded in theory to be pretty decent but I had never done anything of that nature in my life. I was talking to a mentor. He is actually a golf coach but he was my mentor at that time in a lot of ways. I was telling him about the idea and he said, “I think the idea is really good. What are you afraid of?” I just said the usual things that most people say, “I’m afraid of looking bad, I’m afraid of failing, I’m afraid of losing money, I’m afraid of not being able to recover,” and so on and so forth, and he said, “Remind me right now what it is that you’re doing for money.” I said, “I’m waiting tables, I’m deejaying, I’m pumping gas. I’m just doing pretty much whatever I have to do.” He said, “I think the idea of a club is really good. I think you should do it. If things don’t work out, you can always go back to pumping gas.” It’s one of those things that hit me in that moment and has stuck with me throughout my entire career. There are certain things that we can always go back to if push comes to shove, and for me in that moment, it was I could have gone back to pumping gas.
I want to hit on something you said about “How would I look? How would it look to others if I failed?” This is something that we all go through at one point or another. In fact, to this day, I still have those pangs from time to time when I’m about to try something new and I have that thought, “How would it look if I fail?” The bottom line is that nobody cares. Who cares what it looks like? It’s not important. What’s important and what is respected is that you try.
Ultimately, it boils down to that old adage of fear preventing us from doing those things that we might want to do but we don’t know the outcome, so we don’t do it. Reality is things never go as good as you hope or as poorly as you think they might. It’s always going to end up being somewhere right in the middle. Maybe my acronym for fear will help folks here. Everybody’s got their own acronym on it and whatnot, but mine is Forget Everything About Reality. That’s what happens for a lot of people. We just forget everything about reality, we start making up all this stuff about what’s going to happen, how it’s going to happen, why it’s going to happen, and so on.
Then we either take action or we don’t take action based on basically the story, the illusion of what’s going to happen that we’ve put forth in our minds there. For some of us, it does become reality. Some will say, “You created that reality,” and others will say, “It’s just coincidence.” I do think that if you keep that in mind, that fear, in my way of thinking is really forgetting everything about reality. You just ground yourself and you look at where you are or what the actual facts are in relation to what it is that you want to do and where you are in your life and where you can possibly go. That may help to ground you a little bit.
False Expectations Appearing Real is my interpretation. Our lives have run parallel paths at some level because when I was about to start a software company, I had this thought, “This is silly. I’m not Bill Gates. What right do I have to start a software company?” There was a hesitation there but it didn’t last very long. That was the best part. I had a very enthusiastic brilliant partner who wrote all of the code. When we looked at the org chart, there were just two boxes and it was Neil who wrote all the code and Mitch who did everything else.
That’s how it started and then before we knew it, we were at 100 people and we were generating $10 million a year in sales and it just took off. The thing about starting and the thing about going forward is that moment in time between when is it real, when is it not real, and when do you know it’s right? The only true way to fail is to give up. If you’re never giving up, and I don’t mean never as in doing something stupid forever, but if you’re never giving up, then you’re just trying to make it work and you’re pivoting in different ways to make it work. Clearly, that’s what you were doing as well.
We are always in a perpetual state of pivoting, and it is just the way life is designed and the way the human animal is designed where we’re just continually evolving. It’s really an organic process, but what ends up happening for far too many is they get caught up in the “I eat a turkey sandwich,” That’s what I do. At one point, you have to step back and go, “That turkey sandwich was new to me at one point, like I hadn’t tried it,” and then for 30 years it’s been your go-to thing, but 30 years and a day ago, you had never had a turkey sandwich. That’s what I like to ask people to think about, “What is it that you’re doing that is in fact new that’s not based on the tapes that you’re playing there in your head over and over again?” For most people, we’re just playing the same tapes.
For me it took moving away. I had to get out of my home of origin, my state of origin, move to a completely different place, and reinvent who I really was in a different place. That was how I did it.
I’m a huge fan of reinvention. That is the name of my radio show which is Reinvention Radio. I always believed that the best way to get anything done is to dismantle the status quo and figure out how you can do it better, with the exception of if somebody has done 90% of the work for you and it’s the 10% that’s going to make the difference. Then you can certainly improve upon something that’s already been done. We’re in a continuous state of reinvention and when we get stagnant is when we get in trouble.
When did it occur to you that this whole reinvention thing for you was a distinct place that you needed to spend time?
For the better part of my adult life, I’ve been known as Mr. Bold. It’s actually on my license plate. When I moved from Chicago to San Diego, I went down to the DMV and I was looking at different plates and maybe get a vanity plate. I hadn’t had one for a little while, and so I put that request in. She was like, “Mr. Bold is available.” I was like, “39 million people in California and not one other Mr. Bold,” so there you go. It’s just in my nature, it’s in my blood, it’s in my DNA to not be willing to accept what it is that others might look at and go, “That’s fine.” I’ve always been in that constant state of reinvention, whether it’s with my business or with my personal life, my wife, you name it. As human beings, we get really tired of doing the same thing over and over again. That’s why those tasks are all being replaced by robots because robots can do those tasks.
You are not like everybody else. There are people that take enormous safety in being able to do the same thing over and over again, and that’s why they still have JOBs.
I’m not going to sit here and knock it by any stretch and say what should be done or what shouldn’t be done. If it makes sense for you to go and do that 9 to 5 and come home to the family that loves you and play tennis with your spouse or whatever it is, who am I to say otherwise? I can tell you just from my own personal experience that there are some who prefer that path of the entrepreneur, that path of the creator, and there are others who are perfectly content and live a great life just simply saying, “What do you need me to do and I’ll do it.” They just don’t take the risk of starting their own thing, and that works too, no doubt.
What happens if you have the spirit of the creator but you’ve not done it.
You die. Seriously, you die every single day. A little piece of you dies every single day, as harsh as that sounds, if you know that you should be playing the guitar on a stage somewhere and the only thing you’re doing is playing the keyboard and filling in stats for your boss.
You’re a guy who has written a book called, What is Your What. Help me understand a little bit what you’ve written about that would help our listeners understand what they could do if they had that entrepreneurial spirit but haven’t quite found the thing for them.
It doesn’t mean you have to be an entrepreneur. The book isn’t necessarily about starting your own business by any stretch, and I appreciate you sharing that with folks. The reality is that it’s more about just understanding how you’re naturally wired to excel because you are wired to excel in very specific ways. Your DNA is already pre-programmed. We can spend a lifetime in denial about what that is or we can embrace it, but the truth of the matter is that my book only counts when you’ve turned the light switch on and you want to figure it out. Most people will go through life as a wanderer, and I don’t mean that in derogatory sense by any stretch. It just means that understanding that there is something that could potentially put fire in your soul and discovering what that is doesn’t necessarily reflect conversations that we have around the dinner table.
It certainly doesn’t reflect conversations that we have in school. If we don’t have that awareness that there is something out there that might bring us more joy and might bring us more satisfaction, then we never head down this path. The assumption is that the light switch somehow someway something new has come into your life. You’ve been exposed to something, you’ve been exposed to someone, someone died, you got divorced, whatever it might be, but that light switch got turned on and you say, “I have to figure out what else I can do here because the path that I’ve gone down hasn’t provided enough fulfillment for me to this point.”
As long as that light switch is on, then it is a matter of understanding how the What is Your What framework comes together which is based on identifying that core gift that you have. For some of us, it’s communicating, for others it’s teaching, for others, it’s enrolling, for others, it’s protecting or healing or entertaining. There’s a good chunk of core gifts that each of us has, and we each have one core gift. You may think you do a couple of things well. You do, but even if it’s 51/49, one has a slight advantage over all the rest. The question is what vehicle will you use to share that gift? Lastly, who are the people that you’re most compelled to serve? If you can get clear on that core gift, the vehicle and the people, you pretty much got the What is Your What framework solved there. You can move forward the next day with putting something into action.
First of all, everybody on this show, you wouldn’t be on this show if you didn’t know that there was a very bright future for you. What Steve is saying here is that if you haven’t found it, don’t give up. There is a way to find it. He’s identified the pathway and by all means reach out, get that book, and start digging in. I want you to go a little bit deeper here. What is it that someone must ask? What are the questions? Give me an idea of a few of the questions that someone must ask if they’re really going to find those answers.
This is where a lot of people get hung up and it’s a great question because the reality is we’re often not just insufficiently honest with ourselves but even with those around us. Most of the time, we live by the whims and the agendas of others. What’s really important is to try to separate yourself from the judgment that you’re inevitably going to receive if you change course. Just think about it from your personal life. If you’ve been a butthead to your significant other for the better part of 30 years and then that light switch goes on for you on the 30th year, the first day you come home and you start rubbing her feet, she’s going to look at you a little crazy like, “What are you doing here exactly?” You’ve got to understand that there are only two types of people. There are those who criticize and there are those who create. It is super easy to be a critic.
You’re a critic right now, you’re a critic of Mitch’s questions, you’re a critic of my answers, you’re a critic of the platform that you found this show on. That’s just human nature. We are natural born critics, and as soon as you shift to getting comfortable with the understanding that I can put something forth for the world to judge and it’s okay with whatever that opinion is, that really in fact then gives me the freedom that I need to create. There is a life in the middle, but I don’t find that life to be appealing. In other words I want people to line up on either side of me. More than anything else, I want them to have an opinion. I’m not going to be everybody’s cup of tea and that’s fine, but at least I want people to be able to have that opinion that either I am or I’m not.
I hear where you’re coming from when you say that. There is a point here to be to be made, particularly if you’re in a place now where you just don’t know. If you don’t know which type you are, a creator or a criticizer, then that’s one of the questions that Steve is asking us to take a look at and do that introspection. What ends up happening here is that if I’m a criticizer but I want to be a creator, it’s going to take some work but I have to make the switch. I have to move from one to the other because if you are a criticizer, then you probably can’t be the creator you are meant to be. Is that what you meant?
No. You can be both a critic and a creator. There are times where you’ve got the critic hat on and there are times when you have the creator hat on. Ultimately, being a critic can work to our benefit because we have to judge, we have to decide whether or not we’re going to take action based on all of the information that we have. You have to come to a conclusion about what works for you and what doesn’t. There are moments in time where you are going to be a critic and moments in time where you are going to be a creator. My point, more than anything else, is that I just want you to recognize that the time to be a creator is now, and so get out of that mindset and get out of that way of being of just simply being a critic. I’m not saying that being a critic ever goes away. I am simply saying that I want you to try to do both.
I believe I really get it now and I’m glad you explained it. What happens with a lot of companies and a lot of people who start companies is that they don’t have a lot of money when they start out. When I started my software company, we had $5,000 so we had to rely on finding a way to promote ourselves that did not involve money. We stumbled into public relations and using PR as our primary vehicle for getting the attention of the public and the press and eventually customers and an acquirer as well. I know you have a lot to say about what public relations could be .What I love about what you wrote is the “coming from a place of deciding deliberately to build influence.” What did you mean by that?
Visibility is the lifeblood of your business. If you are not visible, you won’t be in business in short order. Will that be tomorrow, will that be the next day, will that be the next week, the next month, I don’t know, but I do know that if you are invisible, you will go out of business. End of story. I am a huge fan of leveraging the power of PR. What I’m not a huge fan of is having to pay for that visibility and having to rely on other people to get you through the gatekeepers and for someone else to basically give you that stamp of approval and say, “You are worthy.” Frankly, the only time that most people get that stamp of approval in the old media world of television, radio, print, and so on and so forth, is if they come in with a very expensive matchmaker, whether that be a PR company or a booking service or something of that nature, who opens the door for them. I totally understand that people love being on TV and having that visibility and so on, but from my perspective, the most underutilized opportunity right now to gain massive visibility at no cost is to do exactly what we’re doing right here right now, which is to appear on the world’s leading podcasts.
I’m a huge fan of new media. I’m not going to get into video, blogging, social media, or mobile, or any of that. Let’s just stick with the conversation around podcasting, because this is a medium that is set to explode. Once car play hits the dashboard, either through Google or through Apple and 250 million cars are going to roll off the assembly line in the next five years with WiFi as a standard accessory, the days of trying to figure out how to get a podcast are over. It will be right there on the dash. Once the autonomous cars hit and people are going from point A to Point B without having to touch the wheel, all of those people are going to be looking for entertainment, information, education, end products, programs and services. If you are not there and you’re not taking advantage of this, you’re missing out on a huge opportunity.
I’d like to clarify what you just said a little bit. You don’t have to actually start a podcast to be on those stations. Ideally what you want to do is find people who already have large followings and appear on their station, appear on their show. Eventually, if you start to build an audience for yourself and you start to grow in popularity and significance, at that point starting, a podcast of your own is a good idea. In fact, I think you have a guide. Do you have a guide? I thought you had a guide for all of the influential people in the podcast world.
Yeah, we do. Actually, this is something that a lot of people ask me, it’s like “How do I know what shows to be on? How do I know who the right influencers are? Once I figure out who they are, how do I contact them? What do I do to actually get on their radar?” What we did is we created something called the Ultimate Directory of Powerful Podcasters, Big Time Bloggers, and Social Media Stars. Basically, 240 new media influencers can make you famous with the push of a button. We do give a preview edition of that away for free. I’m happy to share that URL at some point if you’d like me to.
I You have this list of influencers and this is a list with 240 people. Think about it from a different perspective, from the perspective of the guy who’s listening to this show. He’s thinking, “Steve has probably given this thing away and has had it for a while. A billion people pester all those 240 people. Why would they respond to me?”
The answer is they won’t if you don’t go about this the right way. The world of influence is pretty small and so you really have one chance to get it right. If you blow it, as much as I hate to say it, people talk. Just like you in handing me the microphone here, Mitch. If I hadn’t done a thousand interviews before this interview, you probably would be going, “Why on earth did I have this guy on?” There is a certain cadence. It’s you asking a question, I respond, I give you an opportunity to enter back into the discussion. I talk in sound bites. There’s a skill to this. These are things that you have to learn, but the other thing and the more important side of the equation here is you and I have a relationship. As you said, we’ve talked in hallways, but we’ve been trading emails for the better part of a couple of years and we run in the same circle, so you know who I am, you know what I stand for, and you believe in me enough to put me on the show.
The directory is an incredible resource. It does provide you with all their information in terms of their photo and their social media stats, and a description of who they are and what areas they play in, and it includes their e-mail address. It hasn’t been billions of people that have downloaded it, but there’s been a really good chunk. I forget what the exact numbers are, but a lot of people have downloaded it now over the last year. There are going to be some people who won’t read the first five pages which tell you exactly what to do and what not to do to get to the point where they say, “I’d love to have you on the show,” and they just start sending out those rapid fire emails. We know as well as anyone, because I’m sure you get those all the time, Mitch, the only place that those rapid fire emails end up is in the wrong file there.
I want to tell a story about that because one of my goals a year and a half ago was to get on John Lee Dumas’ podcast, Entrepreneurs on Fire. I felt like he had the right platform for me and I wanted to tell my story on his show. I posted a note in our JVMM directory, which is a group that Steve and I both belong to, and I said, “Who here can help me get onto this show?” Surprisingly a couple of people came back “You’ll never get on. I have to tell you, he doesn’t really accept anybody new.” I had this thought, I said, “I bet that there is a way to do this.” I decided to develop a relationship with him. I looked at what he was promoting and I wrote him a note and I said, “I see you’re promoting your success journal and if it’s okay with you, I’d like to share that message with my tribe.”
He was very sweet and wrote me back and said, “Absolutely, I’d be happy to. Let me send you one.” It was a very nice introduction and he was very kind to have responded to me. I wrote back to him and I said, “I notice you’re doing this particular thing,” and I don’t want to get into what I said, “but here’s an idea that might actually potentially double the value of what you’re doing now and help people at a much larger level.” We entered into this conversation and this went on for maybe two months before I actually said to him “What do you think about me coming on your show?” It was instantaneous. He just wrote back and said, “Sure, happy to. Let me give you a link and you could get yourself set up.”
What did you do there? You planted the seeds, you set this idea in motion in your own mind, but you didn’t share that with John. You did what you had to do which is you do have to add value first.
I didn’t think of it so much as like a formula for what I have to do. I truly was interested in what he was doing as I’m interested in what you’re doing. I don’t have these conversations just to do this. I do it because I’m naturally curious about the people who’ve been successful. I know that there are nuggets there that they could share that would help others. What I just wanted to stress here is that if you just blast off a billion emails to people, it’s just not that helpful, but if you start out by understanding who you’re talking to, it will make the path a little bit easier. I know it has for me. Steve, at this point, we have covered so much ground and I so appreciate the time we spent. What I’d love to hear is if you could share at least one story about what happened when you were growing the company and pretty much maybe a decision point for you or something that you feel would be valuable for others to learn about mindset or where you took things from where they were to where you are now.
What I can tell you is too many times in my entrepreneurial life, over the course of the various entrepreneurial endeavors, I’ve made the mistake of giving up the reins of control of the company. I’ve done that now three times and I don’t plan on making that mistake again. The one that hurts the most is you talked about my owning the Liquor.com domain and that actually had been online for a very long time, since 1993 to be exact, and picked up that domain and in 1998, but over the years, we had built up some pretty interesting iterations, but the first iteration we built to several million dollars in sales and this was around 1999. That’s when the internet was really starting to pick up steam. We were like, “There are some companies out here who are getting millions of dollars in funding. All they are really are ideas on a napkin.” We were like, “We’ve got a great domain. The “heavy lifting” has been done. We’re already doing millions of dollars in sales. We just simply need to get the word about who we are. Let’s go ahead and raise some money to do that.” Sure enough we were able to find some folks to try to help us there and found an investment bank to take it on. They decided that we’d be a prime candidate for going public and that basically ended up being in March of 2000.
As you know, that was the beginning of the end for what happened there and in all of that tech land. Prior to filing the S-1 whatnot to go public, the investment bank basically said, “We need to see different people in here, more gray hairs, that thing,” and so we signed away our management rights and brought on all these lettered saviors, CEO, CFO, CMO, all these people. When push came to shove and we couldn’t get out because the markets collapsed, it was very clear that these folks had really no clue what they were doing, but I had signed away my management rights and literally my hands were tied. In August of that same year, I literally walked away from the company including the domain.
That was nine years of hard work down the drain. I was able to reclaim the domain because I’d never signed away my rights to it. It’s a long story to get into that, but I basically ended up reclaiming the domain in 2005, 2006. I just lost all hope in my ability to make something meaningful happen with that domain and ended up going out to Silicon Valley once again to find partners to run this thing. Here I am as one of the largest shareholders of that company, but I have no control. I have no say in what goes on even though ostensibly it’s my domain. It’s what I contributed to the company.
As I look at it now, I just go “Why did you think that someone else could do a better job with this than you could?” This is what I would caution you to think about. No matter what your skill sets lack, you can always find someone to fill in those holes. Ultimately, I would just caution you on doing anything remotely close to giving up control of your baby because no one will be able to build it and nurture it the way that you can. You can find people to help you but at the end of the day, it really does need to stay in your control even if you bring on talented people to help you.
The same thing happened to me in a little bit different way. I’ll go back to the business I started with Timeslips. I got to the point where we had grown to about $5 million in sales. I had gotten there on my own and I started to get nervous and think, “What am I missing?” I started to feel inadequate about my management abilities and skills to take it to the next level, so I spent almost a year hiring a management team that literally did almost the same thing yours did. They screwed up my company and luckily I did not give up control. I basically fired everybody at one point in time and I got rid of the entire management team and I said, “I don’t know what I was thinking.”
Had I had your advice then, I wouldn’t have done it because I would have seen what you had done. This is fantastic and I really appreciate you saying it because there are times when we just don’t feel like we can do something but we may be the best person there is no matter what. You were the best person there was for that and obviously you saw that after you made the mistake. Mistakes are the greatest teachers and it certainly showed both of us exactly what the lesson was there.
I’m happy to help others avoid the same fate that I’ve had to contend with. As I sit here now, there is not a day that goes by where I don’t think, “I don’t really know why you did that, Steve.”
There’s marketing experts, there’s PR experts, all these people you can hire, and they don’t end up with ownership of your company. Hire whoever you want, let them work for you, but make sure at least you understand what they’re doing so that you’re not getting taken and not getting the results you’re paying for. That is just regular stuff that you’d need to pay attention to, but it’s important. Business is like a plane crossing the country. It’s off of the actual flight plan 98% of the time and there are constant flight corrections. In business, we’re constantly correcting our path. We try something, it doesn’t work, we bring it back towards where we want to go. It steers over the other way, we have to reset the path again. Navigation in business is the most essential tool because if you can see what’s going on, you can fix it, and if you don’t think you can fix it, you can get some help and get some advice to fix it as well. I know you have a program about helping people reinvent themselves. Do you want to spend a few minutes just telling me what that’s about?
The best place honestly for folks to start would be to grab a free copy of my book, What is Your What. We’re happy to give that away. That’s What is Your What: Discover the One Amazing Thing You Were Born To Do. If you survive that and you like my style, then we do have something called the Reinvention Workshop which is an online course that basically takes you through my process. You’ll see me leading a group through the process of discovering their ‘what’ and a lot of the teachings from that book. Most people who go through that process will come out the other side pretty clear on what their ‘what’ is.
I do have two additional questions for you and I ask this question all the time. I love this question and it helps all of us better understand you. It’s really all about your passion. Where is your passion today?
I’m 47 years old. I know that I really still enjoy radio. Radio has always been a first love for me. I’ve been doing radio off and on for the better part of twenty years, and so I do love that. I love the show that we do, Reinvention Radio. It gives me an opportunity to connect with some amazing people and share some amazing stories. The reality is I don’t know. It’s Steve Olsher version 10.0 come in at some point here because I’m one of those people that really does need to continually evolve and continually grow, and there are some good things on the horizon.
I bet you do and I appreciate your honesty. There are times in my life when I didn’t know what my passion was anymore either. At first they felt like dark times, but it turns out that in Buddhism, being in a place of not knowing is a gift because you’re open to so much that could possibly happen. You’re in a great place, Steve, and I’m intrigued by the fact that you gave me that beautiful honest answer. I’d love to spend time with you and maybe together we could find a passion that would be fun for both of us.
I’ll take you up on that.
The next question I’m going to ask you, is who, in all of space and time, would you like to have one hour to enjoy a walk in the park, a quick lunch, or an intense conversation with?
Other than some relatives who I love to dig up from the earth and spend some time with again, I’m still a huge fan of Lenny Kravitz. I’ve got Let Love Rule tattooed on my forearm. It’s not only a mantra, but it’s homage to Lenny in his first album. It would be Lenny all day long.
I had interviewed Rich Gorman and I asked him that question and he told me that his answer was Jimi Hendrix. I thought to myself, “There’s another person who loves Jimi Hendrix as much as I do.” I thought that was a great answer. Lenny Kravitz is awesome and I understand why you would name him. The reason I ask the question is because it really helps me understand what is interesting, important, fun, inspiring to the people I have on the show. Thank you for sharing that with me.
To everyone, Steve, is a genuinely wonderful guy. He’s open and friendly and he can easily be approached. Read his book, send him little notes, and tell him how much you love the book or ask questions. I know he would love to hear from you. Is that right, Steve?
I’m happy to share my email which is Steve@SteveOlsher.com.
Steve, thank you so much.
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